Can the human race survive the next 100 years?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by CatherineW, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. laladopi time for change. Registered Senior Member

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    well global warming would be the first of many affects if we continue the way we are. once the water level rises 3ft or more many many millions of people will be displaced, refuge to dry land with food and warmth, wars over land, people dying disease, chemicals spilling into our water supply etc. major catastrophic effects.
     
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  3. kmguru Staff Member

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    Not really, it is all about risk management...for the human kind...
     
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  5. bananite Registered Member

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    Because:

    1. Space is massively empty. Imagine two marbles rolling on a frictionless football field, or a lake, or Iceland. The chance of their collision is very close to nill; the angle has to be extremely precise, and this doesn't happen often.

    2. Large objects in space don't exactly wander around...things are mostly clumped together into planets or asteroid belts. If they do, they might just join the orbit of/around something they encounter. Every now and then a small asteroid may break away from one of the belts in our system, but those are usually small enough to break up in the atmosphere.

    3. Large, catastrophic asteroids strike once every couple of hundred million years (right?). Human history has been documented for 4000 years. You will probably live >100 years. The probability that you, or even your children, your children's children, or even humanity will ever be around to witness/die via devastating asteroid is close to nil. Its all relative on a time scale.
     
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  7. John99 Banned Banned

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    that is only because we are 'supposedly' smarter than ancient cultures who did not spend time thinking about 'possibilities' or writing books on them. turns out they were correct though.
     
  8. EntropyAlwaysWins TANSTAAFL. Registered Senior Member

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    The figure is closer to 30 million years IIRC but yes catastrophic strikes are rare, the last one was about 65 million years ago and killed off a certain well known bunch of lizards.
     
  9. fantasus Registered Senior Member

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    what may happen until new year 2108/2109: human extinction is of course imaginable, as it has allways been, but perhaps we should in this case be more optimistic (those who wish humanity to continue of course. So perhaps humans will continue (not "transhumans" -they may allways be something in the future!). Even nations, religions, ideologies and many other phenomena so many believe are "dying" may actually outlive all of us(the man behind the famous words "God is dead" has been dead for some time too!). What may be a thing of the past: "Progressive" civilization in a specific sense: The illusion of an ever expanding civilization, were each generation is more numerous, wealthier, live longer, are more educated and control more advanced technologies and "deeper" scientific understanding may soon come to an end. That is not the "end" of humanity, but of (a certain version of) civilization.
     
  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    Wonder if the asteroid strike is part of the Solar System evolution process...just as our weather pattern....
     
  11. bananite Registered Member

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    Ah, I was only one magnitude of 10 off...

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  12. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Your figures are a little off. Homo sapiens has been in existence for somewhere between 130,000 years (fossil evidence) and 200,000 years (DNA projections). In vernacular language we generally apply the word "human" to the creatures who started building tools, creating the qualitative difference between us and all other species, about 2mya. Biologists apply the word to all species of genus Homo, which split off from the chimpanzees 7mya.

    The first chordates appeared around 550 mya. 750 mya there were no vertebrates, much less mammals, much less primates to even vaguely resemble humans.
    Depending on what we find after more exploration of Mars, it could conceivably be possible to construct a self-sustaining habitat there. We might figure out how to do that fairly soon, but it has to involve transporting a lot of material there to get the construction moving, and that will be collossally expensive. That will slow the pace of the project.

    And of course Mars is in the same solar system, so it won't escape the death of the sun a few billion years hence. (See below.)
    As I have posted elsewhere, there has been an inexorable trend over the last eleven thousand years to increase the size of our "tribes" by merging them. I see many signs that we're on the verge of the final merging into a single civilization, although there are forces still working against that, as I have already pointed out.
    As I have already opined, I don't think that the transport of significant amounts of matter, including living creatures, over interstellar distances will ever be practical. Even if life is a lot more common than it so far appears to be, and even if it commonly evolves into intelligent civilization-building life, the nearest civilization could still be a couple of hundred light-years away. A round trip could take a thousand years or more.
    Given the context of the OP--a hundred years--I think we're safe in assuming that even if we expand the universe of discourse, we're still expected to confine our defintion of "human" to H. sapiens, or at least a species that will be our successor in genetics and culture. That fits even the loosest conventions governing the current use of the word: genus Homo.
    Well sure. But the sun is almost exactly halfway through its lifecycle. That means it has another four or five billion years to go. We can reasonably expect as much change to occur on this planet during that time as occurred during the first half. Actually, the sun's temperature is slowly increasing and within a mere one billion years the earth will be too hot for water to exist in liquid state so we don't have quite that much time.

    By then, even if our brightest physicists haven't found a way to overcome the lightspeed limitation on interstellar travel, a few of our generation starships will have found reasonably earthlike planets on which to establish colonies, far from the impending catastrophe in our solar system of origin. No, they won't be able to come back and rescue the rest of us and carry the Magna Carta and the Sphinx, but they'll have a really good digital library with best wishes from billions of people back home and the planet's entire catalog of literature, music, video, history and everything else. Heck, our whole galaxy is only a hundred thousand light-years in diameter. A generation starship could traverse that entire distance in a few million years... assuming they're not all unlucky enough to be destroyed by errant meteors.
    Hey, I'm a teacher. (Adults, not children.) One of my mantras is: "There's no such thing as a stupid question, but geeze there sure are a lot of smart answers."

    Ask away. We're here to serve.
     
  13. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Certainly, underground!

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  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Imagine an advanced race that travels in one huge battlestar galactica type fleet through the universe. They never go home, perhaps their home was destroyed, or perhaps they've simply been traveling so long they've forgotten about it. Regardless, whenever this fleet comes across a suitable planet, it leaves a colony there. Perhaps this is alll that remains of its original mission. Finally, suppose that this race has no more regard for the current occupants of whatever planet they come across than we did for the Indians. Oh, I should also have mentioned they are heavily armed with weaponry thousands of years more advanced than our own.

    So there's no need to communicate with the home planet. There's no need to travel beyond light speed.,
     
  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    If you want to honestly enumerate the most important risks to the survival of the human race in the century that began with 9/11, you can't possibly ignore religion, particularly Abrahamic religion. To "remain neutral" and steer clear of this subject, for the sake of political correctness or to spare the feelings of the religionists, is to practice bad science and take a chance on reaching an invalid and misleading conclusion.

    It's quite plausible that at the Mesolithic/Neolithic cusp, religion could have been a positive force. Hostility between tribes was so intense that more than half of adult human skeletons from that era that have been analyzed with modern instruments show the cause of death to be violence. For two tribes to discover a common spirituality could well have been the first step to a peaceful bonding.

    But through a couple of Paradigm Shifts (the Agricultural Revolution and the Dawn of Civilization), tribes became larger and people were exhorted to feel kinship with total strangers they would never meet. It was inevitable that two consolidated tribes would come in contact that espoused different spiritualities. At this point religion was no longer a bonding influence.

    But then the religion of Abraham arose, and it conferred on its followers a sense of smug superiority over those of other religions. This was exacerbated by the two evangelical variations of Abrahamism, which by their nature rapidly increased the size of their "tribes." Eventually their sense of superiority made them belligerent toward "infidels" or "heathens," and conversions were done at swordpoint. As Christendom and Islam became larger, this belligerence escalated.

    The result was that the evangelical Abrahamists committed three atrocities for which no atonement will ever be possible: the obliteration of three of earth's six precious, irreplaceable civilizations--Egypt, Inca and Olmec/Maya/Aztec.

    Add to this their equal enthusiasm for turning against one other: the Crusades, the Catholic-Protestant wars that defined the Reformation, the ongoing Sunni-Shiite feuds, the Holocaust, the wars between Jews and Muslims that comprise the political landscape of the Middle East, and the Crusades restarted as fallout from that landscape but joined by a U.S. President from the Bible Belt.

    Religion is now a wedge between communities, stalling the advance of civilization at the tribal level as we struggle to transcend it and build transnational hegemonies, hoping that one day our entire species will be members of a single worldwide civilization. No less august a student of human nature than Carl Jung said, "No wars in human history have been as bloody as those among the Christian nations." He did not live to wonder whether a war between Islam and the combined forces of Christendom and Jewry would update that observation.

    To be sure, there have been occasional eruptions of violence that match the ferocity of the family squabbles among the Children of Abraham. Genghis Khan's Mongol conquests, the American Civil War and World War II... well that's about it and none of them destroyed an entire civilization.

    Since WWII the scope of secular warfare has waned precipitously. Today nations are downright reluctant to come to each other's aid, for fear of escalating a small conflict in Darfur, Georgia or Myanmar into World War III.

    If there is a deliberate man-made threat to the survival of mankind in this century, it is the unabated hostility of Abrahamists toward one another.
     
  16. Zap Facts > Opinions Registered Senior Member

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    I doubt it. The sophistication and power of humanity's technology has been on an exponential growth curve, whilst human nature has remained the same. Presuming a continuance of this curve over the next century, I would say we have less chance of surviving this century as we have ever had in any previous century - and we had some damned close calls in the previous one. Throw in the climate change crisis on top of the rest and do the calculations. It is no small irony that peak oil and the collapse of our civilisations might actually save our species, at least in the medium-term.
     
  17. theoneiuse Theoneiuse Registered Senior Member

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
  18. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I think that most people, religious or not, would say that in some respects the clash of religions is near the top of the worlds threats. But we are talking about humanity surviving for the next 100 years. Even with a huge kill of numbers due to wars or terror acts of the worst kind my bet is that the religious conflicts and terror will not wipe us out. And it seems to me that there is a lot of good done in the name of religion at the grass roots level. Look around and see the helping hands offered by the faith based community. Man for man the faith based community significantly out gives the secular community if you can believe the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (sccbs).
     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    How is it ? I'm considering buying it

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  20. superstring01 Moderator

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    There's one problem.

    Any species that is capable of traveling the interstellar void will be thousands, if not millions of years more advanced than us. More than likely they will have left their pesky organic existence behind and become something unimaginably different and more than likely not needing a flimsy planet for anything at all. The fact is: Any species that survives that long will have moved so far beyond us as to not care or need this planet having become inorganic to survive the journey. The advent of nano, genetic and cybernetic technologies would permit any species to harness any stellar object (and more importantly, a star's power directly) to make whatever it needs. A hyper-advanced species (and I'm thinking of the Aliens in the movie "ID4") would simply never need a green, water rich planet. Why? Why tie your species to a perilously changing planet? What the hell is on the Earth that is not more easily obtained from asteroids and planetoids (minerals, water, etcetera) that a gravity-bending uber-advanced race would have to endure the travails of this terrestrial planet to get? The answer: Nothing.

    We are only a century away from having total control of our own DNA. Protein folding, nanite building, cybernetic enhancing technologies all but negate the need to come to a pesky Earth-like planet and destroy the inhabitants just to suck up their water and mine their minerals. There is a hell of a lot more of that stuff around Jupiter than there is on Earth.

    ~String
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The concept of the generation starship has been around for decades. It could be built in orbit using current technology and powered by solar sails. That would make it rather primitive and slow, but nonetheless workable. The biggest challenges are to guess the "critical mass" of population needed to ensure the survival of civilization within a closed space for thousands or millions of generations, and to be able to steer and stop to replenish the raw materials lost to entropy.

    By the time some other civilization's generation starship reaches us, the ship itself will be pretty old, but there's no guarantee that its science and other culture will have advanced far beyond us in such a small community. As I noted, it will be difficult to ensure that the distant descendants of the original crew don't become lazy and foolish with so much automation around. Sci-fi stories have been written around that theme: "There's a planet over there emitting radio signals. Does anybody remember how to stop this thing?"
    Don't you suppose that the creatures or other living things on that ship will have curiosity? Might they not want to stop here just to see the place, and even to talk to us, no matter how primitive we are? Assuming that the lightspeed limit can never be circumvented, it could have taken them a thousand years or more to find another inhabited planet with another species or type of sentient life. Even if they've been cryopacked (or in "standby mode"

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    ) and very little time has passed for them, this encounter would have to be a momentous occasion and they wouldn't want to miss it.

    Else, why are they out exploring at all?
     
  22. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe they became mamby-pamby, liberal doo-gooders who chose not to kill of the pesky, irratating human species on their planet ...but that pesky, pushy, violent species was causing to much trouble on their own planet. We're the prisoners that the mamby-pamby, liberal aliens didn't want to just kill ...so they sent us to this penal colony.

    Baron Max
     
  23. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I suspect this is true

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    . But that would be a good thing because out of quilt they would save the human race from the asteroid or the solar expansion wouldn't they?

    BTW, my spell checker broke on this post. It can't find mamby-pamby doo-gooders :shrug:.
     

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