Can Satan repent?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dennis Tate, Mar 7, 2021.

?

Do demons and devils have HOPE?

  1. NO

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. YES

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Maybe????? That would be nice wouldn't it??????

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,729
    It's what keeps me coming back.......

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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    perhaps
    perhaps not
    there seems to be no central dogma
    except that all things on earth are creations of the devil
    including the church of rome
    and so the Albigensian crusade to irradiate the heresy
    during which, it is said that a captain asked the bishop in charge
    how do we tell the good christians from the heretics
    and the bishop responded
    kill them all, god will know his own
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That's all good and well. Abstinence does not produce offspring and leads to extinction, at least in the physical world.
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,320
    except that
    they grew for 200 years
    ergo
    reproduction seems to have been the norm
    (those fucking cathars?)
     
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  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,729
    If in fact they had offspring, it kinda negates the spiritual discipline required at that time.
     
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,291
    play on words

    cat satan represent !
     
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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,729
    Hippy cat hair.
     
  11. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Wow!!!!!!!

    Those sure were not termed the "dark ages" without reason!
     
  12. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    It would seem to me that if the tradition of Covering Cherub Halel leading a third of the angels of heaven with him.......
    and being thrown out of heaven before he could have led the other two thirds.....
    indicates that he is an exceptionally good promoter of his ideas?!


    Dr. Richard Eby, near-death .com :
     
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,320
    Also known as the Albigensian genocide
    at least 200k and perhaps a million cathars were slaughtered
    (in a very real sense, the church of rome ushered in the dark ages with fire and sword.)
     
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  14. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    Yes they did......
    and for a strange and unusual comparison.....
    the Worldwide Church of God began in 1934 with the first issue of The Plain Truth magazine by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.....
    and by 1986.... the time of Mr. Armstrong's death.......
    the doctrines of the WWCG had placed him into a position where he could rival any Pope........

    and for the record... I would not trade him as a mentor....
    Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Garner Ted got me researching Evolutionary Theory.... world events and trends....
    the Jewish and Christian scriptures and even many aspects of Judaism.

    Although I now disagree on his teachings regarding Soul Sleep.....
    I still am glad that I got my beginnings in philosophy from the WWCG.
     
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  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,148
    Probably not:

    1) Angels, in Christian tradition, have perfect knowledge.

    2) Satan is an instrument of God.​

    Perfect knowledge is generally taken to mean an angel knows everything save the mysterium itself; that is, the mystery of God's grace remains mysterious because they are not God and thus cannot know.

    In this context, Satan knew everything he needed to know in order to make his decision; it was the only decision he could make, a result of his context within perfect knowledge.

    Satan himself is God's instrument°; in this aspect, he will only repent if it is his role to do so. As an anchor for definitions, Satan's role seems essential; there must, in the schematic describing God's Creation, be someone or something to fulfill the station Satan serves°°. Repentance seems unlikely.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    ° See, Book of Job, 1.9-12↱. True, there is an alternate reading describing God as a cruel and cowardly master, but that might actually justify Satan; it gets complicated.

    °° In a broader, more literary consideration, there are a number of existentially fundamental aspects of Satan, or his station in Abramism, frequently and significantly iterated in their own way among other cultures outside the Abramic experience. Themes of contradiction stand out in the moment, because it is true most do not think of Satan as an instrument of God, but there also remains a question of what most people might think about Satan has to do with which, or even any, record or tradition or story.​
     
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  16. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    Yes.... the ideas about Satan in the Book of Job are troubling......
    I heard near death experiencer and Orthodox, (or perhaps Chassidic), Jewish Rabbi Alon Anava comment on the book of Job in which he referred to
    ancient traditions that Job......
    had given very "wise" but not exactly merciful advice to Pharaoh that played a role in the way in which the children of ten of the twelve tribes of Israel were
    treated in Egypt.

    Job may have been a grandson of Issachar and in a sense a nephew or grand nephew of the Patriarch Joseph.

    In Egypt... the descendants of Ephrayim, the youngest son of Joseph were not slaves.....
    but instead were free to leave Egypt at least years if not decades previous to the Exodus led by Moses......
    (according to the rather ancient Book of Jasher at least). The Book of Jasher chapter seventy five has a story about
    twenty five thousand descendants of Ephrayim leaving Egypt but not taking any food with them....
    so they lost a war against the Philistines and were all killed.

    The descendants of the other ten tribes of Israel in Egypt were definitely treated as slaves and the specific methods used against them, according to Rabbi Alon Anava, can be traced back to advice given by Job..... that would help to explain why God allowed Satan to test Job so mercilessly.


    https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/75.htm
     
  17. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,551
    From an Abrahamic faith point of view, Satan is thought of as perpetually evil. If Satan were willing to repent, the story would change.
     
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  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,729
    All gods are subliminal representations of natural phenomena and common human character traits and foibles.
    IMO, this has not in any way changed from the time when the first hominid raised a stick to the "heavens" and cursed the unseen beings that made the light and darkness and when angry threatened his troupe with thunder, fire, and rain.

    The list of gods is long....very long and represent almost all of human knowledge and behavior.

    Motif-index[edit]

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    Baronne Rigoley d'Ogny as Aurora, by Jean-Marc Nattier, Baltimore Museum of Art
    A basic classification of the types of gods as based on the Motif-Index of Folk-Literature, by Stith Thompson:[1]

    Other deities by association
    and some
    Other classifications

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities_by_classification

    What science calls "natural phenomena" , religion calls "gods". It's just a leftover from very old times, when the elders taught the people and of course had no idea about physics.

    Sentient Hominids have roamed the earth for 150,000 years, Science has been around for maybe 5,000 years.

    Once acclimated to a social structure, human resist change.

    If you want to see more naturally occurring human behavioral folklore and spiritual beliefs :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif-Index_of_Folk-Literature
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  19. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    That is certainly what I have been taught in any and all churches.....
    but if it is true that new and more clear information will be revealed
    in the time just before the beginning of the Millennium or the Era of Moshiach as Jews term it......
    and if one part of more clear information is being revealed through what is shown to people who have
    brushes with death then......
    we are living in a time period where an impressive case for Eventual Universal Salvation can be presented.

    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

    .....
    "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father." (John 15:25)
     
  20. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Personally..... the existence of extremely powerful life forms would fit with my idea of
    God evolving or learning over infinite time in the past. Some or even many of the
    ancient traditions about "gods" could have a basis in a more Theistic Evolutionary Theory.


    My guess is that Intelligence first came into existence in fundamental energy.....
    assuming M-Theory I would guess that the energy of the eleventh space time dimension would begin to
    think and plan and experiment first........
    then later on fundamental energy would be formed into a more complex tenth dimensional continuum......

    then later into a ninth dimensional continuum.....

    later on an eighth dimension teeming with many life forms.....

    later on a seventh dimension also teeming with life that on one level are somewhat "experimental"......

    later on a sixth dimension teeming with life forms much less complicated than we humans are but with capabilities far beyond ours.....

    later on a fifth dimensional space time was invented.... (I suspect as something of a prison environment for spirits who are very selfish and
    predatory)..... (actually a lot of really angry and hateful beings may well exist in the energy of the sixth dimension as well)........ or it may be that
    fifth and sixth dimensional space - time later on became more and more of a prison environment.......
    but perhaps at first those levels of energy / life may have been very different indeed.

    I suspect that to a degree... former Covering Cherub Halel who fell and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because it was in
    Eden that he was in charge of...... I assume that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is somewhat like a program that increases
    understanding exponentially but..... also leads to a terrible temptation.

    I believe that the anger that former Covering Cherub Halel felt as he was thrown down......
    would astonish us..... assuming that he was formed out of perhaps eighth or ninth dimensional energy......
    the emotions that he would face would be far greater than the levels of jealousy or anger that we humans go through
    so often.

    To some degree... I do suspect that
    Satan is acting in the mind set of the Milgram Experiment and is testing all of us
    but perhaps..... if he within himself most admires the people who learn to love others.....
    as opposed to becoming predatory and selfish......
    This would compare to Stanley Milgram Ph. D. of course being more impressed with the
    "Teacher Subjects" who DO NOT zap the "Learner Subject" with dangerously high levels of electrical pulse as they would deliberately
    enact giving a wrong answer.......?!

    The Milgram Shock Experiment
    By Saul McLeod, updated 2017
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,729
    From my perspective as atheist, I don't see the concept of natural evil intelligence as part of the evolutionary process.There is no evidence that with exception of hominids, predatory animals utilize what may be called evil methods to kill prey for pleasure.

    Evil is the exercise of cruelty in a manner profoundly immoral and wicked.

    I don't see nature as profoundly immoral and wicked. It functions in an impersonal deterministic mathematical fashion, not with evil or cruel intent.
    A natural extinction epoch, there have been 5 is not immoral or wicked, they are a result of climate change or other natural disaster.

    We are currently in the midst of what is called the primarily man caused sixth extinction event, the Anthropocene epoch and our biological annihilation. Nothing evil about that. It's man's wanton disregard for natural laws that are causal to an imbalance of climate and common natural resources such as water pollution, etc.

    The ozone hole causing ultraviolet damage was caused by man's use of chlorine in refrigerants and aerosols, supposedly angering the gods, but in reality only causing a climatic imbalance harmful especially man.

    Ozone depletion
    is a major environmental problem because it increases the amount of ultraviolet (UV) radiation that reaches Earth's surface, which increases the rate of skin cancer, eye cataracts, and genetic and immune system damage.Feb 12, 2021

    Nothing evil about that. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  22. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    Good point.... whatever type of program was in The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
    seems to have given mankind.... as well as Satan and the fallen angels and I assume fallen predatory alien races, an ability to come up with genuinely evil
    and predatory behaviour patterns.


    Near death experiencer Kevin Zadai was shown that Covering Cherub Halel took and ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil before he
    began his rebellion against heaven partly in an attempt to get worship for himself.

    The clones and partly human hybrids who existed before the time of Noah, according to some ancient books, were all descended from
    people who had taken that Tree that I assume gave those and their descendants extra capabilities of freedom of choice even toward genuine evil.


     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,729
    Yes, but all that is metaphorical. Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge is a metaphor of an evolving brain able to think abstractly. There is no evidence of a tree that imbues intelligence when you eat of its fruit, but there is strong evidence of an evolutionary process that reslted in a larger more complex brain.

    I believe the causal event occurred when two chromosomes in an ancestral hominid fused and mutated in a single but much longer chromosome. The proof of this lies in the fact that only humans have 46 chromosomes while all other hominids have 48 chromosomes.

    Introduction

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    Conclusion
    http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm
     
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