Can former atheists explain what atheism is?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    An atheist asks for evidence of God, and if they are not satisfied with the evidence, they maintain their claim, there is no evidence for God.

    An atheist, therefore, should have an idea of what would be regarded as evidence enough for them to accept that God exists, because an atheist knows, or thinks he knows, what is not evidence of God.

    The atheist does not think, or accept the idea that he is blinkered by his atheism. That his atheism prevents him from accepting God.

    So the atheist must think that he can know that God exists, and remain an atheist.
    I don’t think you can, which is why ask the question.

    Jan.
     
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    What is actually wrong with the question?

    Jan.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. But nice try!
    Pointless. You just said that nothing would change your mind - so I won't bother.

    That's the difference between you and I. I can accept new discoveries and change my worldview based on those new discoveries. You cannot, as you said above.
    See above for an example. You'd eliminate the more likely explanations via experiments, and if the most likely of the remaining explanations is that God did it, then you go with that.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Of course. That's part of the scientific method. A scientist would use exactly the same method to prove or disprove a new theory. For a concrete example of this, look at the Cannae drive.
    See above. Toppling a few mountains might do it as a result of prayer. Parting the Atlantic Ocean to let God's Chosen People to get to the US from wherever they are escaping from. Levitating worthy people into heaven. That sort of thing.
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So why would you even bring God into this scenario?

    Jan.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Because if God was the most likely explanation, you'd go with that.

    You might want to read before replying.
     
  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You do realise that not everyone would agree that was evidence for God’s existence. So why would you?

    Jan.
     
  11. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    How would you decide that God was the most likely explanation?

    Jan.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't it remarkable that anything which would prove the handiwork of a God would have to break natural laws and constants.

    To my knowledge, in the entire history of mankind, there has never been a single event which did not answer to natural law.

    For instance: A burning bush is not evidence of a divine event.
    Spontaneous combustion happens regularly and in perfect accordance with natural causes.

    A "talking" burning bush is not evidence of a divine event.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush

    , Did Moses eat some 'shrooms?

    Did they ever make it to Canaan? Oops,....God appointed Moses to lead his people into Canaan, but then refused Moses entry into the Promised Land? Wow!!!

    Did God sell Moses a "bill of goods"? It took forty years of Moses' life to lead his people on this real estate sham...

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  13. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Not quite.
    I’m asking what atheism is, from the POV of a former atheist who now accepts and believes in God.

    I can see how you could draw that conclusion.
    God is pure spirit, and God’s connection with us is purely spiritual.
    The spirit is not affected by the harshness of material life, we only think it is, because we identify as the material, not as the spiritual.
    Jesus was a representative of God who came to show us the difference between these worlds. Just to give an example that God doesn’t forsake us. We forsake ourselves because we are rapidly falling away from the truth, or the light, and embracing the lie, or darkness, by believing in a temporary manifestation as the sum total of existence. Where we reduce the spiritual, to mere emotions. And everything is just chemical reactions occurring in our brain.

    There is a guiding force. It is the force of nature. Nature has a character, and it is played out with precision. We are part nature. We use nature. The simple act of typing this message is an action that required me to utilise the forces of nature. Every single action, no matter how minute, requires the assistance of nature.
    To every action there is an opposite and equal reaction, a thermodynamic law.
    It doesn’t matter who the person is. They could be the cutest baby ever, or a really good person, nature will act precisely upon them.

    You mean a Christian may say that. But a theist would have no reason to say that

    I think you meant a “ hands on God”.
    Did you?

    That being said, I understand.
    There is a way to pray to God, because it is not just a case of asking for something. We need to learn how to address God. For that we need the assistance of people who themselves are already God conscious. A good example is the Lords Prayer. Jesus taught this to his deciples.

    Agreed!

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    We have been fed this idea of God coming and taking all the Christians up to heaven, leaving the sinners on the earth, and so on.

    But this has nothing to do with God. Unfortunately a lot of damage has been done, but it’s not too late to fix these false notions of God. Understand God through scripture is a good way to begin the process.

    Jan.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Because you asked what I would accept. Not what everyone would accept. Don't you remember your own questions?
    1) It was something in line with what God has done in the past and was asked to do.
    2) It was not possible otherwise (i.e. via natural laws.)
     
  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    No I didn’t.
    Why lie?
    You were the one banging on about scientific method.
    So why would you accept it as God?

    1) God has built worlds and human beings in the past. Why would this event make you accept that God builds world and human beings?

    2)Do you know everything there is to know about natural law?

    Jan.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    See, here's the thing about the Internet - it saves stuff. So I can just go back and repost your own words.

    "As an atheist, what would you regard as evidence enough, to make an atheist, for whom there is no s no God, understand there is a God, while your in their atheist state?"
    followed by
    "Do you think you could curtail anger for a minute and answer the question?"

    So I will ask you the same question - why are you always such a lying hypocrite? Do you forget that the Internet saves stuff? Or do you figure if you lie enough people will simply stop checking?
    Because everything is subject to the scientific method. Even God.
    Because there is no proof that God built any of that stuff - just words in a book that isn't even self-consistent. It would be like claiming that hyperspace is scientific reality because you saw it in Star Wars - and your eyes don't lie!
    Nope. I am learning more all the time.
     
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You lying knows no bounds.

    I said “ As an atheist”, not what you personally think. All atheists do not believe in God. All of them, at least any I have ever spoken, listened to, or read from. So if one atheist accepts that the evidrnce is sound, based on the scientific method, then all should. But they won’t. So why would you accept what you regard as evidence to be God, even though it would not be universally accepted?

    Therefore all atheist should accept, Right?
    Do you think all would accept if you accepted?

    According to you and the atheist community, there is no proof of God, period. So what exactly has God done in the past to make you confident that your proposed evidence would be an act of God?

    Then how could you know what is and what is possible within nature, to know that it is God, and not some force of nature unbeknown to you?

    Jan.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I will let others read through your posts and determine who was lying. I am not worried.
    Nope. I can't determine what other people will accept, even though you think you can.
    No. I can't determine what other people will accept. I know this is hard for you to conceptualize, but other people have other ideas and beliefs, no matter how much you want them all to fit into the same category.
    Again, I'd have to see the proof. If it was parting the Atlantic to bring Godly people to the US, and a religious leader asked it to be done, and we could verify that it was a supernatural power doing it - then that would be pretty good proof. (God did something very much like this in the past. I'll let you look it up.)
    Because we have a fairly good grasp on what the natural world can do. Not a perfect one, of course. But if someone opened up the Atlantic ocean, and scientists could wander around the sea floor, measure the wall of water and see no natural forces keeping it there - then that would be very strong evidence.

    That's because, unlike you, I can grow and learn new things.
     
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So lack of evidence is not the reason people are atheists. It’s good to hear that from an atheist.

    What about other atheists?

    Especially the one conditioned to sing the “ There’s no evidence” song.
    Why wouldn’t they accept the evidence as it would have gone through the scientific method?

    How would you verify that it was a supernatural power?

    How do you know we do?
    Is it possible that we don’t even kn

    Then the grasp may not be worth a hill of beans.

    So if they find that the waters of the Red Sea did part, you would consider that evidence of God?

    Unlike me, you’re rude, you tell lies, and you have no intention of ever accepting God.

    Jan.
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Bullshit question.
    The answer would obviously vary according to the nature of their particular atheistic viewpoint - which would mean nothing about "atheism" in general.
    If we are talking about the overt Abrahamic converts, we would also have to allow for the frequent dishonesty of their claims.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    That’s your opinion, but there’s no way you can know, because you are a card carrying atheist.

    Jan.
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Is cynicism a part of atheism?
    Or are you just a loan miserable, angry individual?

    Jan.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You have to understand that when you try to insult me, I take it as a compliment. It's like Trump calling me a fool. It means I'm doing something right.
     

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