# Can communism work???

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unwrapped, Oct 3, 2005.

1. ### unwrappedRegistered Member

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id like to know what you guys think. i've been thinking about this; i believe in the ideology of Marx but i just dont know how practical this would be in the current world we live in. any one have opinions on this???

3. ### unwrappedRegistered Member

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i had a conversation with a friend not so long ago regarding this matter and he said that communism will never work because as humans we are born greedy. we long to be better than the next person because thats how we validate ourselves. i believe that we compete against each other because we are taught that we live in a world of survival of the fittest, and that we are not equal. look i dont have any answers just ideas going thru my mind regarding humanity.

5. ### LightRegistered Senior Member

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No, it can never work. The closest it has ever come is only with state enforcement and the inducement of fear. The ex-USSR proved this quite well.

In addition to what unwrapped said, consider this: someone must assign the work or there would be a large number of jobs unfilled. Few would want to work as garbage collectors, sewer work and other distasteful things - because they are going the get only the same benefits as everyone else. And no one would want the truly hard jobs that take a lot of labor.

Consider miners. Who would want to take such dirty, hot, and dangerous work when they earn no more than someone who has a job as a store clerk in an airconditioned building?

The only way it can come even close is force people into jobs. And many times it's absolutely not the kind of work they would have chosen for themselves. Need more farmers? Great, just grab 500 people from the nearest town and make them do it. That's exactly why they had bread lines and food in general was in such short supply. The farmers had no incentive to produce any more than they were forced to do - and they did it very badly.

7. ### GodlessEvilGod is deadRegistered Senior Member

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Communism might mean everybody gets paid exactly the same no matter what job they do.
Sounds cool, until you realise that many scientists, engineers, brick layers and so on might think "fuck this i might aswell sweep floors",
and thats what would happen with equal pay all the top jobs go because if you get payed the same for sweeping the floor then you may aswell do that.
So the equal system has to be broader but enforced, you cannot be free even if you are equal.

It will always end up a case of "everyone is equal,BUT some are more equal than others"

I dont like EQUAL anything, i like the fact that one person considers himself better than someone else, i like it when no equality is forced because i like variety, not because i'm AGAINST variety and difference.

Making us all the same is like racism except you're racist against every human by saying "hey i put these two guys on some scales and they are both the same, because i say so".

8. ### unwrappedRegistered Member

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Light and GodlessEvil; thanks for the responces.what you guys have touched on is the very thing im struggling to swallow. i think communism sounds good in theory; it would solve alot of the poverty around the world but wud also create problems. i think we are mentally not prepared for communism. we are taught that we are not equal, and that its survival of the fittest. so it wud be difficult for anyone to take a job that is more demanding if they know they get paid the same as everyone at the end of the day. hey its an idea right, and by the looks of it, it wil remain on paper.

9. ### Viva_el_CheRegistered Senior Member

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This kinda thing brings up the question "Would we be better off if we gave up free will?" I do not think humanity will ever be mentally ready for communism because there will always be freedom of choice and people are always looking out for number one. There is always gonna be people who think about themselves before others and until we get rid of those people (which will never ever ever ever ever happen) we will not be mentally ready for communism

10. ### GodlessEvilGod is deadRegistered Senior Member

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We are not equal, if i have no arms and you have the normal two arms then you are not equal to me, how can we be equal, if i have no arms i cannot do what you can.

If you have better qualifications than me, then we are only equal on the firm belief i can achieve those same qualifications but maybe i cannot, maybe my IQ is not high enough, or maybe i have an attitude that does not suit the requirements to achieve such a goal due to my social upbringing.

If i have stronger muscles than you then i can lift more can i not?
well then i can do something you cannot so we are not equal clearly.

And we can go on with examples but you get the point.

In many ways we should consider races equal, but not when we put culture in the equation, how you are brought up, what religion you have effects how equal you are to whatever it is you are measuring against.

If i say black people are better singers (and i think they are) then i am not considering them equal and it would be a racist statement to make, i have to say even if it is not true that white people can sing equally aswell even if some medical/scientific evidence says otherwise.

Just considering everyone the same is just not the answer because it denies the truth:
that everybody is indeed different.

11. ### LightRegistered Senior Member

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You're welcome.

Yes, it does look good on the surface but you don't have to look very deep to see that it's seriously flawed.

One of it's biggest problems is that it actually promotes and pays laziness! Why should I work twice as hard as the next guy when I'll be paid exactly the same? Not only that but I might as well make it easy on myself and not do any more than the very bare minimum. And why not? I'll still be paid the same.

Communism completely kills ambition, inventiveness, quality, and self-esteem. And that's why cars made in Russia would not run or fell apart after six months. The people who made them absolutely did NOT care how bad a job they did.

Now compare that with capitalism and you'll quickly see that those factors that are not important in communism are EXACTLY the ones most desired! That's precisely why America has succeded and the USSR failed. And unless something changes, China will eventually go the same way as Russia did. The only thing they have going for them is the sheer size of their population. I don't think that everyone is aware of it but Mao came very close to causing the whole country to crumble. Eventually it will unless they make some serious changes - and I believe we see that starting to happen right now.

Communism will be forever doomed to failure for the simple reasons I've stated.

12. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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In free-market societies now, many people work at those types of jobs NOW and they usually make very little money. Why do they do it now, willingly, yet won't do it under communism? I don't follow your line of thought?

We don't force them now and they're often the lowest paid work laborers, so why would we have to force them under communism?

Baron Max

13. ### RosnetPhilomorpherRegistered Senior Member

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How can you decide whom to force into what job? And what right have you to do so?

And basically, they are not <B>physically</B> forced (by the law) now. They still have their freedom of choice without any physical threat from a person or group of persons. They might be forced by nature, by their pysical condition, but no <I>person</I> is forcing them. Because no one has any right to do so. There is a difference in the case of communism, where it is people who force others.

14. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

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It cannot work for you need people in charge that would be trustable and honest. There are no people that I would trust to run a communist type of government because they would only take advantage of those people that follow them. They make the rules and they tell you what to do and when to do it while they sit back and take in all the money for themselves and give little back to the people.

15. ### charles cureGuest

i dont think it can work in the way that it was conceived by marx. i think you could have communism to one degree or another, but no the way he thought it would be with a worldwide proletarian revolution and stuff. its too tenuous, it only takes one holdout or variable out of place to fuck the whole system.

16. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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It could work on small scales, where everyone agrees to the principles involved.

17. ### devils_rejectRegistered Senior Member

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well said light

18. ### RomanBannedBanned

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Exactly. The most common form of communism is the family unit. From each according to their ability, to each their need. When camping, this works especially well. I find myself to be a fairly able outdoorsman, so when camping and the people, I help out. Everyone contributes, everyone gains.

But communism will only ever work on a small scale where everyone knows each other.

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No problem.