Can anyone translate this?

Discussion in 'Linguistics' started by Mike Honcho, Aug 24, 2008.

  1. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    Vesh tuley chavy, mandy coms (to) rokker rumness.
    Kek yek gins o porri lavs te-divvus.


    (The spelling is impromptu as I don't know of any formal written account of the language)
     
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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    You talk as though you know what language it is. It would help immensely if you would share that information.

    Is that CH an English, French or German CH? Is tuley pronounced TOO-lee or too-LAY? Why is there a hyphen between te and divvus and parentheses around to if the language doesn't have a standard writing system? They must tell us something about the grammar.

    Etc.

    Vesh looks like the word for "your" in an obscure Slavic language.
     
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  5. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    I do know what language it is, but kind of the point is I wanted to see if anyone here would recognize it. Its not truly a complete language anymore (I think) as this particular dialect relies heavily on english grammar and supporting vocabulary.

    1. CH as in church
    2. too-LAY
    3. it would probably be more accurate as "te divvus"
    4. The (to) is not necessary when speaking this sentence but makes since of the translation.

    Sorry, I'm in no way a linguist and I'm sure I've butchered my presentation.
     
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  7. Enmos Staff Member

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    Welsh ?
     
  8. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Only a Dutchman could think it was Welsh.
    Tsk...
     
  9. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    No, but you are in the right chain of islands.
     
  10. Enmos Staff Member

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    I have no clue.. I'm just naming one of the weird looking languages

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  11. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Yr wyf yn dysgu Cwmraig is weird looking?
    For shame!
    (Just going from a 30-year old memory)
     
  12. Enmos Staff Member

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    "Your wife is a [some sort of insult]" ? lol

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  13. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Not even close.
    But amusing.
     
  14. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Is it Shelta? That's properly categorized as a cant, not a language. Shelta is a way of speaking developed by the Travellers, an Irish people portrayed in the TV comedy "The Riches" starring Eddy Izzard and Minnie Driver (although Shelta is never featured). The basic structure is:
    • English grammar and syntax.
    • Predominantly Gaelic vocabulary with borrowings from other languages, including even Rom gadje, "outsider."
    • Words altered phonetically in whimsical ways, such as reversing phonemes or entire syllables: "girl" is laicin, from Irish cailin.
    Shelta should be defined as a cant rather than a dialect or a language because:
    • It was created more or less deliberately and consciously, rather than evolving naturally.
    • Its purpose is to avoid being understood by outsiders.
    • Its speakers are all fluent in the language of the surrounding community and speak it among themselves when subterfuge is not necessary.
    The best-known example of a cant in the English-speaking community is Pig Latin.

    The Travellers have achieved a reputation as scoundrels who scam the community of "Buffers" around them, similar to the Gypsies, and in fact they have been erroneously called Irish Gypsies. They are Irish by ancestry, Catholic by religion and most of them speak fluent English. While their roots are in Ireland and many live there, the majority are in England, with a small population in America as featured in the TV show, and other countries.

    Shelta has been documented since the late 19th century, but some scholars say it may go back to the 13th century. The Travellers seem to have little interest in formally studying Shelta, perhaps because this would work against their purpose of keeping outsiders from understanding it. However, outsiders are nonetheless diligently studying it. It appears to me that these "Buffer" scholars have succeeded in establishing a standard writing system for Shelta, as shown here.

    There are an estimated 80,000-90,000 speakers of Shelta worldwide. A handful of Shelta words have been assimilated into English, including "bloke."
     
  15. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    170
    You are hitting all around it.
    Would you like to know or try again?

    Hint: You are a real "pal"
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  16. temur man of no words Registered Senior Member

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    Icelandic
     
  17. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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  18. Enmos Staff Member

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    lol

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  19. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    Frag already guessed that one referencing the cant of the Irish Travellers.

    The following comes from Wiki:

    "Pikey is a pejorative slang term used primarily in England, originally referring to Travellers, sometimes mistakenly called "Gypsies".

    Frag? you still out there?
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I happen to know about Shelta because of "The Riches." Even though no one in the story ever speaks Shelta except for referring to us as Buffers, it piqued an interest in the Travellers and information about them started popping up.

    I'm American and it's unlikely that I will know about anything else of that nature in the British Isles.

    Shelta is also known as Gammon, although some authorities make subtle distinctions between the state of the cant in different eras. Having revisited my sources on Shelta and reviewed the samples of Shelta (the Lord's Prayer, etc.), it's clearly not the speech you're asking about.
     
  21. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    Wiki calls it Anglo-Romany. We call it Rumness or Romanesse.
    A broken language Spoken by Romnichal- English Gypsies.
     
  22. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    Translation:

    Sit down child, I want to speak rumness (Anglo-Romany).
    No one knows the old words today.
     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Those don't seem to be a common names for it. They don't pop up on Google. Wiki calls it Angloromany with no hyphen. Romany is the Indic language of the Gypsies (they call themselves Roma, a name whose etymology is unclear). It evolved separately from Punjabi, Kashmiri and other closely related tongues after they migrated out of India sometime between 1000 and 1500CE.
    We call it a "blended" language. In that sense it's quite similar to Shelta. It uses almost perfect English syntax, but the words are predominantly Romany.

    However, it did not evolve the same way. It was not invented deliberately to shield Gypsy speech from being overheard by outsiders. It appears to have been a more natural assimilation, as the Gypsies in England gradually gave up speaking their ancestral language among themselves and picked up English. But they kept their old words and inserted them into their English sentences.

    They've done this in many of the countries in which they settled. There's a whole group of blended languages called para-Romany, including Welsh, German, Spanish and Slavic.

    Just as the Travellers picked up a few Romany words in Shelta, the Gypsies adopted a few Shelta words, including "moniker," a word meaning "name" that was briefly popular in English slang as well.
     

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