Bush going down as the worst POTUS in history!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. jpappl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,985
    Buffalo,

    "Like the Fact that President Bush see no need for Habius Corpus for Terrorist, President Lincoln suspended habius Corpus "

    God damn Buffalo. If your going to spend so much time talking about Habeas corpus you could at least spell it correctly. That sentence hurt my brain.

    I think Bush will go down as one of the worst because of his overall job of president, not just because of his handling of the war.

    He has turned much of the world against us. With his economic ideas, rubber stamped by the republican congress he has massively increased the debt without a corresponding and equal increase in GDP, unlike Reagan. He has brought us along with the help of democrats and republicans into a mis-guided and mis-handled war without snuffing out the real culprits which is what he should have done and had the support of the entire world to do. He is basically someone who has made America look the fool.

    He had an opportunity and he fumbled the ball. Simple as that.

    Don't call me a partisan hack just because Bush did a crappy job.

    Most conservatives I know think he has done a lousy job, only 25-27% think he has done a good job.
     
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  3. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    You are a Partisan Hack, I can't help it the truth hurts.

    You have talked to most conservative? and have a working knowledge of their opinions of President Bush, and his performance to date?, dam how do you find time to post on the Forum?

    Yes there are many thing we don't agree with President Bush about, the prime one being that He rolled over for to many Democratic screw jobs, and tried to out Democrat a Democrat, and by the people with social programs just like the Democrats do.

    The other thing that we didn't agree with him on was the way he conducted the war, not that he went to War, but that he allowed the Democrats to screw with the running and course of operations of the war.

    But what I find even funnier is that Congress, especially after the Democrats took over, has a lower approval rating than the President, which is why I can't understand why we sent so many of them back to their offices in this election.

    Here if you want to get a shock:

    http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm

    Congress’ Approval Rating Ties Lowest in Gallup Records
    Jul 16, 2008 ... Approval of Congress has dipped below 20% for only the fourth time in Gallup history, tying the record low of 18%.

    www.gallup.com/poll/107242/congress-approval-rating-ties-l... - Similar pages

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/107242/congress-approval-rating-ties-lowest-gallup-records.aspx

    For President Bush:

    http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

    Bush’s Approval Rating Drops to New Low of 27%
    Sep 26, 2008 ... Bush's approval rating has declined from 31% in the previous Gallup Poll, ... The all-time low rating for any president is 22%, ...

    www.gallup.com/poll/110806/Bushs-Approval-Rating-Drops-New... - Similar pages


    President Bush still has a higher approval rating than Congress under the Democrats.


    You hurt your own brain, it isn't just twisted it is sprained, hell your as bad as joe, you have as much historical knowledge as a pissant, do some research into how Lincoln was thought of during the war, and then look up the Fact that Presicent Lincoln did suspend Habeas Corpus and only after he did so did he seek Congressional approval.

    Look up the Pow Prisons in the North, and see that they make the stupidity of Abu Ghribe, and the reality of Guantanamo Bay, a vacation paradise.

    Look Up

    Camp Douglas --- It was designed with a capacity for 6000 men, but during its most crowded they managed to cram in over 12,000. Almost 4500 people
    died here.

    Gratiot Street Military Prison ---

    Myrtle Street Prison ---

    Alton, IL Military Prison ---

    Elmira NY---Its capacity was designed for 5000, but at one point they managed to get over 9400 people into it. Although they only used it for two years, just under 3,000 people died here

    Point Lookout, MD ---During the three years it was used, 3,500 men died here. At its most crowded, it held about twice its design capability, topping off at 22,000 at its most dense

    Camp Morton, IN ---Set up for 2000, it reached a maximum of 5000 POWs. Used from '62 - '65, around 1700 deaths were recorded.

    You raise the song of Praise for Lincoln as a Great American President, yet are ready to condemn President Bush, for far less.

    You wish to speak for President Lincoln and say He would condemn President Bush, but look at the actions of Lincoln and His Administration, in trying to speak for President Lincoln, you make absolute fools of yourselves, because you fail to look at the true history of the times and the facts of war.

    You don't have the gravatas to speak for President Lincoln, nore do you have the historical knowledge to even make a supposition as to what, President Lincoln would judge, of President Bush's actions.


    Lincoln would have no problems supporting President Bush, just as He had no problems with the actions He deemed necessary for the defence of the Nation, and the Union of the United States of America.

    Yes, you want to judge President Bush a wanting today, and just as many judged President Lincoln as wanting in His day, there is the fact that they ended up being wrong, and it is just as likely after history becomes the Judge, you will be just as wrong.

    You don't have the standing or gravatas, to be a Judge in the Courts of History.

    ps: if your going to bitch about spelling:

    It's misguided and mishandled

    Not

    mis-guided mis-handled
     
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  5. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Buffalo,

    "You have talked to most conservative? and have a working knowledge of their opinions of President Bush, and his performance to date?, dam how do you find time to post on the Forum?"

    Well in fact I know many, some are my personal friends like both of my Uncles, another is one of my best friends since about 5, another is my brother in law. I can go on and on and no I am not a partisan hack, far from it.

    "Yes there are many thing we don't agree with President Bush about, the prime one being that He rolled over for to many Democratic screw jobs, and tried to out Democrat a Democrat, and by the people with social programs just like the Democrats do."

    Huh, Buffalo are you Sarah Palin ?

    "The other thing that we didn't agree with him on was the way he conducted the war, not that he went to War, but that he allowed the Democrats to screw with the running and course of operations of the war."

    He allowed the Democrats to do what ? They helped him go, and the Republicans were in complete control of the operation. Give me a break. Again, you want to lay blame where it is not due. The democrats only fault was being complicit in going. Bush and his team did the rest.

    The reason I believe that people had a poor approval rating for congress was they felt congress did nothing to stop the nonsense, they had no leadership to challenge Bush's failed policies and they didn't like any of them including the republicans who were in charge for 6 straight years.

    It wasn't so much against the Dems, it was against all of them, Dems and Reps.

    That explains why more Dems were voted in, if they really felt the Dems were at fault for this the opposite would have happened.

    The same has happened to them when they go too far in the publics view, that is how democracy works, it is a slow moving machine, sometimes it moves slower than we would like but it usually finds it's bearings and that is what is so great about our country.
     
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  7. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Buffalo,

    I said,

    "Don't call me a partisan hack just because Bush did a crappy job."

    and your first sentence was

    "You are a Partisan Hack"

    You are showing your true colors and are very predictable. You need to stop taking this stuff personally and focus on the facts. Sometimes they are against you and sometimes they are with you. The important thing is to know the difference. You don't want to defend a foolish position, it makes you look like a fool.
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    You can't reason with it.
     
  9. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    Well if your not a partisan hack,let see you take the democrats to task for their contrubitions to the problems, other wise You are a Partisan Hack, and I can't help it the truth hurts.
     
  10. jpappl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,985
    Buffalo,

    The OP was that Bush would go down in history as the worst president.

    I happen to think he is at or near the bottom over the last 100 years. Apparently a lot of people agree with me because he has a horrible approval rating among other things that have been expressed here. But that is neither here nor there regarding your question.

    I believe the democrats like the republicans over the last 30 years are more concerned with the needs of the lobbyists who will help them get re-elected again than they are the long term success of the country. I can't fucking make it any clearer than that ! I have stated this many times in many different ways and even though I include both the parties in the share of the blame you call me a partisan hack.

    Focus on the facts and don't get confused by them.
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    I got to tell you I get a kick out of reading Buffalo's posts and responses. However, one has to start asking if he is real. Does Buffalo really believe his posts? Unfortunately, I think he is part of the koolaid class (27%) who really does believe this line of crap. I do confess a certian facination with this group. I just do not understand how they can so clearly and repeatedly avoid rational thought and quickly dismiss anything that does not fit with their preconceived ideas.
     
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    It easy to understand when you consider humans in general are capable of unlimited illogic.
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Yes it is true humans are pretty illogical, but some portion of the gene pool carries the trait to extremses and it then becomes dangerous especially when you combine it with fear. Humans become very easily controllable when we live in a state of fear.
     
  14. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    I would agree that many people here are partisan hacks (a term which, conversely could be used to describe you as well). But many aren't. I tend to think of Joe and Raven as left leaning, but hardly partisan hacks. I also don't consider myself to be one either. That said, I also consider Bush to be one of the worst presidents this century. Maybe one of the worst of all time (though, I tend to think that he gets beat out by at least three other presidents). Whoever is the worst really isn't so much the point as the fact that Bush is ONE of the worst.

    Bush, sadly, is in the company of some pretty bad presidents.

    ~String
     
  15. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    String, I may be partisan, but it is to the Ideals of Conservatism, and I make no apologies for that.

    Now as to President Bush, it still is a fact that we are to close to the this time frame, and what I am pointing out again is that if you lived in the same time frame of President Lincoln, during and through the Civil War, President Lincoln wasn't a popular President, and His policies were abhorred by the Democrats, and a large portion of the Worlds Governments.

    It was only in retrospect, the judgement of History, that He became know as the Great President that He was.

    Now for joe, and the rest of the Democrats to make a judgement that is partisan at best, and fully biased in the least, is howling at the Moon.

    There are many things that I don't like about the Bush Administration, but from known history, President Bush is doing nothing any worse, than has been done by other Presidents in the History of our country.

    joe sings the praises of President Lincoln, and in that I agree with him, but he fails to take into account, the realities of President Lincoln's action in his administration, and of thing done under his administration, he ignores the historical fact that President Lincoln was absolutely castigated for how He ran the War, and His policies in dealing with descent to His action and policies, at home and abroad, yet when history looked at President Lincoln, it found a Great Man who in difficult circumstances did the absolute best for the Country and it's Future, so no I am not claiming that History will judge President Bush, a great president, because I am to close to the events to judge and the events are still unfolding, but also I take offence that people like joe, and jpappl, and even you, have made your pronouncement of Judgment, even before History has had time to judge the events, and has been written.

    For some reason that irritates the hell out of me, kind of like people who judge you, because of your homosexuality with our knowing you or your circumstance.

    That is what I see here, in joe, jpappl, and whole host of others, who pile on, besides for some reason I love a underdog, maybe because even here I am a underdog.

    Hell I have joe, pj, jpappl, ElectricFetus, in full cry, doing a very good job of attacking me personally, and not responding to the debate, when the historical fact are presented, and it is a Historical Fact that President Lincoln was absolutely savaged by his opposition, the press, and World opinion, during His tenure in Office.

    For all the personnel attacks from jpappl, and innuendos, I find it funny that He get absolutely up set when I call him a partisan hack.

    I am absolutly bemused by pj, who freely uses four letter word in address me and my character, screaming about being addressed by the word Grasshopper.

    And joe, well all, I can say there, is as a veteran, he just doesn't ring true, like a dollar made of Lead instead of Silver.

    Now if they want a straight up debate, debate in the manner of a gentleman, with fact, history, and rebuttal, if they want to debate in a free for all manner, I am willing to do that to.
     
  16. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    You have a mistaken picture of me, hell I don't take this personally, I find it funny.

    Now, you still haven't shown your bipartisan colors, and done a post taking the Democrats to task for their contributions to the mess the country is in, three time I have given you a chance to do so.

    You have not done so yet, so I must assume that your as as called a Liberal Partisan Hack.

    Please prove me wrong.
     
  17. jpappl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,985
    Buffalo,

    "For all the personnel attacks from jpappl, and innuendos, I find it funny that He get absolutely up set when I call him a partisan hack."

    Show me once, just one time on here where I attacked you personally and not your position and I will apologize. You are the one who has attacked the person(s) as much if not more than the position.

    Again, it was you who called me a partisan hack, something I take offense to because it is not true.

    "Historical Fact that President Lincoln was absolutely savaged by his opposition, the press, and World opinion, during His tenure in Office."

    So, what is your point. So was CLinton, Reagan, Carter you name it, that is what partisan hacks do Buffalo. They don't look at whether the position or plan is good for the country. It is common for partisans in Congress to rebel against an idea and then once they are in power try to push the same idea through but only as theirs, then they can claim credit. Because they thought it was a good idea at the time but don't want the other side to get credit.

    But you keep saying that I am attacking you personally, so please show me where I attacked you personally just once. Please. Thank you.
     
  18. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,538
    There's at least two requirements for accepting someones testimony;

    1. They have the capability to comprehend reality empirically.
    - This includes your history of study, your accomplishment etc etc.
    2. They are intellectually honest and are not driven by results.


    Thus attacking your intellectual understanding is valid, and attacking your second is also valid.
     
  19. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931

    jpappl, I must offer my humble apologies, I have went back and reread your post, and I with draw my comments on your character, as a partisan hack.

    Buffalo Roam

    But when you seemly agree with joepistole in response to his post, and fail to recognize his partisan hack job, and personnel attack,

    I find it questionable, as to denying making or supporting personnel attack on me.

    joepistole, He is far from, and to use his own words:

    Your seeming agreement to his statement is what gave me though to question your position, and intentions, to agree with some one's bias, is to make that same biased personnel attack on the object of that attack.

    And again, how can you judge what future history will say of President Bush, especially after the example of President Lincoln, who joe forwarded as,


    President Lincoln it is my belief, from His actions, and situations would be very cognoscente of President Bush's, actions, and most probably chide Him for not going far enough to secure the safety of the country, that is what President Lincoln did, first last and always, secure the safety of the Country, and He went around the People,Congress, and the Constitution to do so, and paid little attention to the opinions of Foreign Countries to accomplish what He saw as the Best interest of the Country.

    joe places all blame across the isle, at the feet of the Republican, and your seeming agreement, in that you never took him on in the same manner that you came after me, again raised questions as to your impartiality.

    Again your offered me battle, in support of joe, and his ideas, so what am I to assume about your stance.

    So in the end, in my musings, our opinions as to where History will place President Bush are irrelevant, as we are still to close to ongoing acts that hve not fully played them selves out.

    That is what I was pointing out, I was not saying that President Bush would be listed as a Great, but I also object to the evaluation that He is the worst,

    Again because we are to close to the present, and do not have the standing, as of yet to evaluate the events today as history.

    ps: would you please use the quote feature in your post it will make sorting out what you are saying a whole lot easier to understand, that is were a lot of the problems lie in my opinions of you and your posts.

    Hell I have only been using a computer for 3 years, and I have figured out how to use the quote option, because it make thing much clearer, and easier to understand.
     
  20. BlueMoose Guest

    Yeah, we are too close to the present to judge, but, what comes to Obamas presidency, its never too early, at least in sciforum

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    In here he has done it all already, saved the country while destroyed it

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    My position ? Reps and Dems are sucking the same tits, just drooling the milk in different manners.

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  21. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    16,931

    But, I am not judging Obama as to his standing in history yet, I am questioning His programs that are being forwarded from him, an His forming administration.

    That is what I question.

    ps: I agree with you, God save the Conservative.

    As to Obama's place in history I will wait till that is history, like I am watching Clintons place in History being formed today, 8 years after he left office, and it isn't looking good, in another 8 years, there will be much clearer picture of Clinton and his place in history.
     
  22. jpappl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,985
    Buffalo,

    "jpappl, I must offer my humble apologies, I have went back and reread your post, and I with draw my comments on your character, as a partisan hack.

    Buffalo Roam"

    Thank you, I appreciate it, and no worries.

    "But when you seemly agree with joepistole in response to his post, and fail to recognize his partisan hack job, and personnel attack"

    Well you will notice that my response to Joe's post was that it would be too bad if you view things only in black and white, and not look at the gray. I didn't say you were that way just that it would be too bad if you were.

    My first sentence was "That would be too bad. The gray is where the truth is usually found"

    With regards to Bush we have a lot of data to go on now, there may be some things that turn for the better for him and I hope they do because it would be a positive for all of us. It appears Joe and I see things more the same then you and I. That doesn't mean we are lock step with each other. I am sure there are things that we would disagree on, but all of us are much closer then the extreme partisan view that the media, all media try and create, they do that for ratings.

    That is why shows that take a far right and far left person work for ratings because it creates a passion to defend one side. They are very adept at seperating the herd.

    There is a big difference from the approach say a Huckabee takes in arguing a point or belief and a Hannity. Both conservatives, but one assumes he has all the answers and the other side are idiots and in the case of Huckabee, feels there is room for disagreement and that the discussion is healthy and may uncover bigger truths.

    Wise democrats and republicans adjust their positions with the greater truths and don't stick to a position that is flawed. IMO.

    "ps: would you please use the quote feature in your post it will make sorting out what you are saying a whole lot easier to understand, that is were a lot of the problems lie in my opinions of you and your posts."

    Sure, I will look into how to do it and use it from here forward.
     
  23. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931

    I know you have been on the forum for a short time, but if you had been around for a while, you will find that there are quite a few things that I don't agree with the RNC and President Bush about.

    I like it when people accuse me of being a Republican, it means that they don't know what they are talking about, yes I have voted Republican steadily for a while, but I am a registered Democrat, but the Modern Democratic party, starting with Vietnam War, and Jimmy Carter is not the Democratic Party that I grew up with.

    joe wants to say that President Lincoln wouldn't want to associate with the modern Republican Party, or President Bush,( in that, I think I have provided enough information to blow that out of the water, especially about Pres.Bush)

    Well look at JFK, HHH, and Scoop Jackson, they would be appalled at what the Democratic Party has become.

    J F Kennedy, Lowered Taxes, was Anti Abortion, Strong on Military Defence, Fiscal Responsibility

    H H Humphrey, supported lower taxes, was Anti Abortion, and Strong on Military Defence, Fiscal and Personnel Responsibility

    Scoop Jackson, supported lower taxes, was Anti Abortion, and Strong on Military Defence, Fiscal, and Personnel Responsibility.

    I see none of the modern Democrats in leadership who come close to the principles of JFK, HHH, or SJ, and the Democratic Leadership from that time period.
     

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