Buddhist Contradiction

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by StarOfEight, May 13, 2004.

  1. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    As I understand it, one of the Four Noble Truths is that desire is the root of all suffering, and that to escape suffering, one must renounce desire. But isn't that a desire, in and of itself?
     
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  3. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, thats why it's such a hard path.

    One must seek without seeking.
     
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  5. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    But, that - argh!

    Thanks, though.

    A second question ... for those of you who've seen The Professional ... would you consider Leon to have some Buddhist qualities, before he meets Mathilda?
     
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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, the desire to be desire-less is also a desire, but a neccessary first step. The desire to achieve enlightenment will dissolve when enlightenment happens. Buddhism is not precisely a creed, but a method to bring about a shift in conciousness. Since enlightenment is the rediscovery of your own true nature, to desire awakening is to dream about something you already have. The practice of Buddhism up to the point of awakening is not free from suffering, in fact, it is intentionally challenging and paradoxical.
     
  8. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    why carry the boat on your shoulders when you have crossed the river?
     
  9. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Its inflatable and only weighs 4 pounds, why not?
     
  10. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Paradoxes abound in eastern religions, and unlike in western religions, you are not supposed to attempt to ignore them or lie and say they don't exist, but instead treat these profoundly stupid statements as if they are profoundly wise, and meditate on them, and attempt to create models of the world that contain them. More than for religious reasons, they are there for social engineering reasons, to keep people introverted, contemplative, and docile, while trying to exist in a world full of profoundly stupid paradoxes that you must treat as wisdom.
     
  11. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    It's a lot easier for China to march into Tibet that way, moose.
     
  12. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    I think there is a little Buddha even in you SpyMoose.

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  13. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Ill take that as a complement, he seemed very happy. Besides, there are many discussions about what enlightenment is, but I don't think the Buddah was supposed to have been terribly conflicted by these paradoxes, as am I not.
     
  14. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    That was profoundly stupid.
     
  15. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    I take it that since we are discussing eastern religion, you don't have an argument to back that up, you just want it to be gnomic like a koan.
     
  16. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    You didn't seem to have much of an argument, just an uneducated opinion.
    You are not supposed to treat any statement as profoundly wise without seeing the wisdom for yourself.
    You are not supposed to create models of the world that contain them, for eastern religion is not the creation of a model, but the awareness of what's real.
    Most people, even in Buddhist countries, are not monks, so the social engineering reason is nullified.
    The purpose of Buddhist (as an example of eastern) thought is not to make people introverted or docile, and if it was, would this really be so horrible? Would you prefer a world of unintellectual aggressive socialites? Don't we have enough of those?
     
  17. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Was the Buddah so catty? Meow!
     
  18. Hastein Welcome To Kampuchea Registered Senior Member

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    Do you desire to live? Do you desire to die? You desire neither of these, they are simply a state of being. By claiming that there is a contradiction in the teaching is just a play on words. People too often associate symbols with the actual object or concept, thus confusing reality with thought.
     
  19. exsto_human Transitional Registered Senior Member

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    I see no point in arguementing the value of the teachings of Buddha, or anyone for that matter.

    Let him who finds wisdom in a word be enlightened by it, let him who does not find it seek it somewhere else if not that he should return to it at a later time.
     
  20. Kami Registered Senior Member

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    If you're a Mahayana Buddhist you could help others across the river with the boat.
     
  21. sparkle born to be free Registered Senior Member

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    Why wouldn't a Theravada Buddhist?

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  22. Kami Registered Senior Member

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    Oh you old-schoolers...

    It was just a little pun. Hinayana means "small-vessel" whereas Mahayana means "large-vessel". Hinayana Buddhists concentrate on enlightenment of themselves, whereas Mahayana belay their own elightenment to first help others across. This is a very simplistic explanation, but all the discussion of boats brought it to mind. Theravada is "old-school" roughly, and they tend to be more Hinayana then Mahayana, though things are not as rigid as they once were.

    One might also ask, "Why not Lamaists?"
     
  23. Hathor Banned Banned

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    theravadian priests are an elitist bunch. they do not go around doing good works. for them, salvation is for each individual to realize by themselves. that is what they do. that is what you should do. there is nothing romantic and comforting about their philosophy. just cold hard facts.

    it makes sense. you cannot communicate an experience too well. the best would be a close approximation

    in the meantime, they live like gods in their temples with the mindless slaving after their every need. there is the occassional chanting done to ward off the devils that plauge the masses. mostly there is gluttony and pedophilia (sexy little boys in their saffron robes - yummy)

    so my respected friends, the moral here is...find your own goddamn way across the river
     

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