Breivik's purported Christianity

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Hesperado, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. Bells Staff Member

    The Norway shooter, Anders Behring Breivik, claimed to be a modern-day Templar Knight, a Christian crusader fighting to chase Islam from Europe and rid the world of “Marxists” — his word for democratic political parties.


    Can I ask, why are people arguing about what he claims to be himself? Why are people so keen to say that he is not what he has described himself as being?

    Before his attacks that killed more than 90, mostly young, people on Friday, Breivik appeared to have been a small fish in the murky waters of Europe’s extreme right political fringe.

    If the rambling 1,500 page testament attributed to him and posted on the internet on Friday is authentic, Breivik claims to have founded a movement inspired by the medieval Templars during a 2002 meeting in London with seven rightists from other European countries. (See VIDEO of alleged manifesto.)

    What sets Breivik apart from countless other ultranationalist web-warriors is a dedication to use terrorism and mass murder against minorities or Europe’s mainstream political class, as well as a systematic approach to preparing the attacks.

    "We will ensure that all category A and B traitors (as he calls supporters of Europe’s mainstream political parties), the enablers of Islamization and the destroyers of our cultures, nations and societies, will be executed,” he wrote. At one point he says 45,000 should be killed.

    There seems to be this need to describe him as not being a ring wing fundamentalist and extremist which led to his being a terrorist, that because he believes in Darwin, he cannot be a Christian... I think it is fair to say that he is but one type of ultra right wing extremist fundamentalist.

    This is the reality:

    “Online, he was certainly active in terms of far-right blogs such as Brussels Journal and Gates of Vienna. He had a extensive Facebook network and had built up substantial online links."

    The network Breivik claims to belong to is a modern day Knights Templar, the order of Christian crusaders who in modern times are popular with conspiracy theorists and feature in the novels of Dan Brown, the author of "The Da Vinci Code." He claims to have met in secret with a like-minded group to reconstitute a modern Knights Templar.


    The political blogs Breivik read included Jihad Watch, The Brussels Journal, TheReligionofPeace and Atlas Shrugs, each of which advocates a harsh, polemicist view of Muslims. An example from TheReligionofPeace, "we see no use in pretending that Islam is just another religion ... . In fact, Islam is dreadfully unique."

    Breivik frequented both American and European websites. Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs are run respectively by Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, both vocal opponents of the Ground Zero Islamic Center and co-authors of "The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration's War on America."

    Jihad Watch has had funding from David Horowitz’s Freedom Center via Joyce Chernick, the wife of software millionaire Aubrey Chernick, according to Politico. It has also received money from the Milwaukee-based conservative Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation.

    TheReligionofPeace is registered in Georgia, U.S., and run by a man who calls himself Glen Reinsford. He is also the author of “Age of Tolerance, A Novel of Alternate History from Al to Allah” — a parallel universe novel in which Al Gore has won the 2000 presidential election and fails to tackle Islamic extremism in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

    The Brussels Journal is run by Flemish journalist Paul Belien and published by the Society for the Advancement of Freedom in Europe, which describes itself as “a Swedish non-profit group.” The Belgian government has accused the site of racism and forced it to remove a post titled “Give us weapons!”

    The sites all link to one another, frequently praise one another and also share material. “Fjordman,” an anonymous, anti-Islam Norwegian blogger praised by Breivik, has regularly contributed to, or been quoted by, all of these sites. Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch has called him a "great European essayist."

    Each of the blogs in one form or another has condemned and distanced itself from Breivik. But Goodwin said that the anti-Islam blogs and websites fed into Breivik’s world view, detailed in a 1,500-page manifesto attributed to him, of a great conflict between Europe and the Islamic world.

    It is quite possible that some of our members (you know who you are) have chatted to this individual on these sites, and you may have helped fuel the fire of hatred, so to speak.

    Hence the danger in such fundamentalist and extremist sites that several of our members frequent or post in because of a fear or hatred of Islam. All those posts that you post in there, this is the culmination of all of it. All that hatred and fear is brought together in Breivik. Posts that some here post on these sites and the discussions they participate in on the evils of Islam and comparing it to Christianity, etc.. it doees not exist in a vacuum. Personally it would keep me up at night..
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  3. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

    Hmm..did he really say it as has been mentioned on this globalpost site, or did he just try to put into a picture the times when Europeans also thought the 'evil Islam'?
    Admitting that he was inspired by the medieval templars -- to picturise his war against Islam -- doesn't imply that Christianity has anything to do with his actions. Everybody can find inspiration in other groups, but that doesn't mean that he shares the same thoughts on everything.

    I guess, the only thing that could solve this is to get the original manuscript written in the original tongue..translations are a tricky thing.
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Good for the Goose?

    I would note that the best Templar conspiracy theory novel I've ever read is Umberto Eco's Foucalt's Pendulum, a delightful but laborious endeavor that also explains the difference between an idiot and a moron, and why women ought to be better at pinball than men.

    Still, though, to me it's kind of like we saw in the wake of the Loughner rampage in Arizona. For nigh on ten years, now, many Americans have been blathering on about Muslims this and Islam that, and one answer that just doesn't work for that set is that the bad guys aren't really Muslims.

    Now that the question applies to an alleged Christian, of course the American right wing is going to flip on its own arguments.

    And that would be fine with me ... if ....

    If that's the last we hear of such arguments about Muslims. Obviously, it's not.

    We still hear the influence argument (Loughner) applied to homosexuality. We will continue to hear the Islam argument—i.e., "dreadfully unique".

    It's also worth noting that one GOP presidential candidate has apologized to American Muslims for his rhetoric; we'll see over the long run how sincere that is.
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    ? Does too.
  8. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

    ? so if superman was a christian and did heroic actions and I'd get inspired by his heroic actions and do something along those lines I automatically become a christian who makes heroic actions although I was merely inspired by the heroic actions while superman's religion didn't catch my eye at all ?
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    If Superman's heroic deeds were overtly organized and inspired to further his publicly adopted and overtly promoted religion and attack its supposed specific enemies, and you adopted the organizational themes and overtly religion-identifed agenda part and parcel with the personal heroism, and wrote thousands of pages describing exactly that situation and motivation, decorating your writings with the insignia of that religion and choosing your enemies in parallel,

    then yes. Of course. No-brainer.

    In Breivek's case we don't even have the complication of individual character in the chosen inspiration - he was inspired by overtly and specifically religious organizations, adopted as his own his perception of the agenda of institutionalized and solidly labeled religious organizations, recognized them as religious and took on what he thought to be their specifically religious mission.

    If he had devoted his life to charity and good works, with exactly the same justifications and explanations and inspirations and apparent mental disorders, does anyone doubt his religious affiliation would be embraced and celebrated by Christian fundies everywhere?
  10. United for Communism Marx & Lenin Forward Registered Senior Member

    Brevik is why Christianity should be banned. Let's see, multiple bloody crusades, imperialism, classism, the "white man's burden", and all that other horror, all because of Christianity

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