Bob Lazar is Credible and here is Proof

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Starman, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. Starman Starman Registered Senior Member

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  2. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Immagine that.

    Yes, he has.
     
  3. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    It would appear that Ufoology's foremost Ufoologist disagrees with regard to Lazar's credibility: http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sflazar.html

    http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc61.htm

    Here's another link that debunks the guy: http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/lazarmn.htm

    Don't you think you're being just a little close-minded Starman? Not accepting the possibility that the claims you are reading are ficitious and concocted in the mind of a deranged person fit Occam's Razor far better than the alternative: that Lazar was a supersecret researcher who smuggled out a secret element...
     
  4. Starman Starman Registered Senior Member

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    So if I understand you correctly, you believe the Ufoology and not Main Stream Science. Hmmmmm.
     
  5. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    Stanton Friedman is after all a phsyicist.
     
  6. Silas asimovbot Registered Senior Member

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    Did I miss something? Bob Lazar claimed that 115 was stable, but the scientists created 115 and it "rapidly decayed to Element 113".

    However, strange as it may seem Starman, the fact that someone said a surprising thing about some future development which later turns out to be true does not in fact gain him any credibility if it is clear that his level of knowledge of the subject is such that his prediction could be attributable to luck. Nothing he said about the properties of 115 actually evinced any real knowledge of the physics involved. Isaac Asimov once quoted a similar example: Immanuel Velikovsky claimed that because of his theory of how Venus and Earth nearly collided (and caused many Old Testament miracles on their way), Venus would turn out to be hotter than expected. About 15 years after his book (Worlds in Collision, 1950) was published it turned out that Venus was in fact hotter than expected - the hottest planet in the Solar System, in fact. But this did not add one iota of credibility to the fantastic claims of his book, which were totally unsupported by either any evidence at all, or our knowledge of the laws of motion and gravitation.

    A Lazar debunker Dr David L. Morgan said something I think applies a lot around here:
    If Lazar is one of these "current science is total nonsense" people, that is sufficient reason for dismissing him out of hand (alongside that Final Theory guy, a critique of whose book I have yet to complete for amazon.com, but I will).
     
  7. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    He is, but ironically throws as many pop-science buzzwords in as possible.
     
  8. Starman Starman Registered Senior Member

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    115 is stable when it is manufactured properly. If you can only fuse a few atoms of 115 together in a supercollider then you most likely will not achieve stability.
     
  9. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Regardless, the page is simply stupid.

    1) It was provided as discs, but was then fused together? How? It would be easy to just fuse them in a way to make less waste.
    2) The step about milling the cone is extra and simply stupid.

    There is not an ounce of support on that page, and lpenty of things which are just plain wrong.
     
  10. Starman Starman Registered Senior Member

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    Stanton Friedman is a better physicist, than he is an investigator.
     
  11. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    I'm sorry. I thought the whole spurious claim involving "element 115" was exactly the kind of thing we should expect a physicist to be able to comment on with authority. I agree that Friedman is a better physicist than investigator (his silly rants about UFOs and Roswell are evidence of this), but even cult members within the UFO community are skeptical about Lazar and have long considered him to be a nutjob.
     
  12. Starman Starman Registered Senior Member

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    Have you seen the Lazar Tape? Many have not. Have you read the Gene Huff synopsis?

    http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/synopsis.htm

    I have to surmise that element 115 did not exist when Lazar was talking about it and still it is just becoming known. Lazar is telling the truth, some can not handle the truth so they try to dismiss his testimony. You can tell if someone is telling the truth just by their body language. Police use this technique every day. When I watched the Lazar Tape it was apparent he is telling the truth. I will ad that he is not perfect and it became easy to discredit him, that was the intent of the Government.
     
  13. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    Ah... the government conspiracy again. Whenever something is proven incorrect (the Roswell crash assumption) or to be a liar (Bob Lazar), automatically this proof is considered to be the work of the government and part of a conspiracy.

    In which case, we've nothing left to discuss, since you can always whip out the "Government Conspiracy Card."

    <img src="http://www.sciforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3918&stc=1">

    Congratulations! You just played the GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY CARD!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2005
  14. Silas asimovbot Registered Senior Member

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    Starman, I like the way you got that Gene Huff synopsis from the Lazar debunking site! Gene Huff is evidently not an unbiased commentator, but (as stated on the homepage) "Lazar's friend and vocal supporter". It has to be said that the opinion of a Las Vegas real estate appraiser is not really going to cut it here, credibility-wise.

    What difference does that make? Why don't I theorise about the properties of element 120 (or Unbinullium as it will be called), then I'll call you in 5, 10, or 30 years when it gets synthesised and say "I told you so."

    I thought you were saying that Bob Lazar had "gained credibility" because element 115 had been created and was found to be stable. I didn't realise that you thought that because he named element 115, and then element 115 was actually synthesised, that Lazar gained credibility because he somehow "knew" about an element which didn't exist yet. Newsflash, any element over 110 may or may not occur in nature, but it will likely have certain properties, based upon it's family and the known facts about electron shells and atomic nuclei. Bob Lazar's knowledge of those properties does not require the intervention of alien intelligence.
     
  15. Silas asimovbot Registered Senior Member

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    I was wrong! It's called Unbinillium.

    I notice that the wording on the description of Ununpentium is identical to that mentioned in the gravitywarpdrive site.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2005
  16. VRob Registered Senior Member

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    You are a freakin tool.

    You're ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance.
     
  17. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    Prove it.
     
  18. VRob Registered Senior Member

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    Just did,

    Go check out the ABC news thread.
     
  19. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    I meant for you to prove my ignorance, not your own.
     
  20. Starman Starman Registered Senior Member

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    This is only one small part of his testimonial that is has entered from science theory to science fact.

    You may hypothesize all day long about element 120 and its properties that is no evidence that it can even be synthesized or ever will be.

    What lazar states has everything to do with the laws of physics that are correct.

    This makes sense form a scientific point of view.

    The reality is Lazar is telling the truth and not everyone can except the truth.
     

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