Blackwater Blacklisted by Baghdad

And Iceaura is no genius, he don't even know the Rule and Law about the use of PMC, and th efact that they are covered under our UCMJ, the Geneva Conventions, and Intrenational Treaties.

Article 47.-Mercenaries
1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;

(b) Does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;

(c) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;

(d) Is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;

(e) Is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and

(f) Has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

Black Water isn't involved in Military operations, they provide security for State Officials, and Civilian Convoys, they conduct no offensive operations, and make no effort to co-ordinate or co-operate their mission with the Military and the story about the shooting of civilians with no cause is already turning out to have been misreported, I can't wait for the full investigation to be completed to see just how much of a difference there is in the reality of the situation, and what was reported to have happened.

Remember the Haditha Marines? Were is the the News Coverage of their Exoneration? The true story of what happened in Haditha, as show by investigation of Fact and Evidence.

Charges dropped against 2 Marines in Haditha case | U.S. | Reuters
By Dan Whitcomb LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A US Marine general dropped all charges on Thursday against two Marines in the shooting deaths of 24 civilians in ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0921973920070809

Charges dropped against another Marine in Haditha case | Chron.com ...
Charges have been dropped against a captain who was accused of failing to investigate the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha, the Marine ...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5145622.html

Charges dropped against Haditha Marine North County Times - North ...
Charges dropped against Haditha Marine By: MARK WALKER - Staff Writer. CAMP PENDLETON -- The Marine Corps announced Tuesday morning that murder charges ...
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/04/17/news/top_stories/1_00_494_17_07.txt

The facts didn't support the case.

 

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Did they drop charges against all marines involved? B/c im sure one, or some of them are guilty, members of their own unit was testifying against one or some of them.

As for blackwater, all eyewitnesses have been against them. Please tell how it has been misreported.

 

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Of course, the fact and evidence eliminated all testimonies from Iraqis; and Americans as everyone knows, never lie.

But really, is anyone expecting the US to hold the troops accountable for the murders? They only presented this farce of a prosecution because they were forced to.

Besides Iraqis are chopped liver;

And we are seriously expected to believe that Wuterich did it all on his own (if those charges are not dropped as well)

 

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OIF is what we call a "contingency operation". Iraq is a theater of combat operations. The US military is operating there. So are PMCs. Thus, PMCs in Iraq are accompanying US military forces in a theater of combat operations, and are subject to the UCMJ.

An interesting question, considering that Blackwater only hires native-born US citizens:

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/employment/contract.asp

There could be PMCs in Iraq that are not US or British citizens, or citizens of any other country of the present coalition, and thus fit the definition of "mercenary" under the Geneva Conventions...I guess. It would still be a stretch to call them that, though, given that they are only guarding things and protecting people. They aren't "fighting wars and enforcing occupations" by any reasonable stretch of the imagination.

You keep saying you want to know "what these guys have been up to", but have summarily rejected any rational explanation given. That is like me saying "I want to know what those guys at Los Alamos are up to", you respond with "nuclear weapons research", and my retort is "BUT I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN THERE MAN, NO OVERSIGHT OR ACCOUNTABILITY I TELL YOU!!!!" If you're trying to make a rhetorical point, it hasn't been particularly effective.

I asked, he answered. Posts within thread numbered sequentially, counting skills preferred.

 

No they don't truly know…. They did start and are still making and keeping files of everyone they (US Forces) come in to contact with, but just like here in America, unless someone has done something wrong and has been caught or ratted on, they can’t really tell friend from foe. And unless the security intelligence in Iraq is better than here and people are walking around with a “I’m a bad guy” sign, you can’t tell the difference to the point of 100% accuracy. But unless it’s changed since I last left, it is still somewhat the same.

 

Echo3Romeo

I saw a interview tonight with some liberal suit who claims that Black Water is just rolling up to sites and killing civilians, and what do you think he used to back up his stories? ah, yes, a spiffy computer generated graphic kill site, and stories about conversations of Black Water employee's from after the incident, no tapes, just his from memory transcripts, the graphics weren't bad but not up to the standards of the 300V, but graphics that tell the whole story all the same. (Jesus give me a break)

My question is that these incidents took places while Black Water employee's were providing security for Civilian Government Types, where are the videos? where were the news types that travel with the Government Dignitaries, and should have taped the incidents?, tape from the scene of the crime should have surfaced by now, showing the Black Water Boy's gunning down innocent civilians, shouldn't it? or maybe there is a problem, like incoming fire? innocent civilians with clearly visible RPG's? AK-47's? shooting in the direction of the dastardly Black Water Cowboys?

 

Interesting denials and diversions from E3R, Baron Max, and Buffalo Roam. What amazing emotional investment they display in American purity-of-arms. Imagine them defending such behavior by foreigners in American streets. Maybe I'll return to picking on these ideological unfortunates some more later. For now, I'd like to return to the story.

When I started this thread, I observed that Blackwater has more pull than the Maliki government. Iraqi PM Maliki had said

Blackwater is already back on the streets of Iraq. Details of what happened in Nisoor Square last week, and many other stories of mercenaries complicating our war effort have been leaking. But these details may also be sufficiently repressed that the American public will characteristically lose interest in this story. Certainly Iraqis will not lose interest, but they aren't in charge, are they?

I found the above Maliki quote, and the following description of what recently happened in the New York Times:

In this McClatchy Article several other details emerge. More anger (or is it just theatrics) in Maliki's words:

Between 11 and 23 pedestrians and passengers were killed by Blackwater mercenaries in Nisoor Square. The snatch of former Electricity Minister Ahyam al Samarrai from his Green Zone jail cell, and transport to the USA was also included in the Prime Minister's complaints about Blackwater. Maliki reportedly mentioned 7 Blackwater incidents, but I can't find a transcript of his press conference, or any more than a few quotes from it.

But more significant than the thick filter on the news is the quick return of Blackwater to their assignments in spite of official Iraqi objections. There isn't much that could be more revealing of a colonial relationship than such a story of imperial impunity. As a result, Iraq is farther than ever from self-government. Present Iraqi political personalities will never outlive such public humiliations at their masters' feet as this.

 

Theatrics, and a attempt to black mail, Now Black Water helped a prison break?

hype, they still are using computer generated graphics as evedence for their story, personelly I prefer the Graphics done in the 300V, better content, and closer to reality, than what the news is showing, Rember the Haditha Marines!!!!!

 

Remember the alamo!

 

And Remember the Maine!

According to The Independent yesterday, the Nisoor Square death-toll reported by Iraqi government sources was 28 and rising as some of the seriously wounded have succumbed.

Evidently, a local bombing that was not in the square panicked the mercenaries into initiating an indiscriminate-force exit from the area. The Blackwater team had apparently been travelling through Mansour in a 4-SUV convoy, in the direction of the airport.

 

Yes, it is good not to forget the atrocities of the Haditha Marines.

 

They have been exonerated, cleared of the charges, Yes Remember that.

 

I remember they killed 15-24 innocent civilians.

 

Not to worry. They were probably reprimanded by their senior officers for this low figure. I'm sure they did better next time.

 

And you can provide evidence that the Marines killed those people? that the killings weren't from Terrorist actions?, the terrorist have a nasty habit of killing Iraqi civilians, just for the heck of it, propaganda, and object lessons to the Iraqi civilians as to who they should fear most.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8552124/

 

Yes, there is plenty of evidence. And the only reason charges were dropped against seven out of eight of them is because seven of them were granted immunity to testify against the other...

Some civilians were killed while in the custody of the marines. How are you going to blame terrorists for that?

That link you showed is an entirely separate incident...

 

So what are we to make of this?

Let's stick to what we know: Blackwater is a military armed force that is and has been killing people in Iraq, at least partly in furtherance of US allied goals and objectives (primarily defensive, possibly), motivated (personally and corporately) by money.

They are paid, for profit, hired soldiers who undertake military operations for money. They are mercenaries, by the Geneva definition posted above by Buffalo, and by any common meaning of the word.

The personnel of Blackwater - or any other US allied mercenary force in Iraq - are not and never have been prosecuted for crimes against Iraqis under military law, US law, or Iraqi law. According to US military commanders in the field (one linked above) they are not subject to punishment, penalty, curb, or control, by US military command (since it is unenforceable and uninvokable in their case, whether or not they are "subject to" the UCMJ is a theological question). According to the specific edicts of Paul Bremer (which still govern Iraq, in the absence of other government) they are not subject to Iraqi law. According to everyone, they are not subect to US law.

They only advertise for native born US citizens, you mean.

We have very little information about their personnel in Iraq - we don't even know, for example, how many there are. Perhaps, unlike many of the other mercenary forces who have among them populated Iraq with tens of thousands of private soldiers, they have only native born US employees in Iraq. That would obviate exactly one of the several criteria under which they are obviously mercenaries.

You guess ? Try Chile, for starters. The point - that such a definition is completely arbitrary and realistically silly if it includes some employees of PMCs and excludes others based on country of origin - remains.

I have yet to enjoy the privilege of rejecting any information, hint, link to source, or similar help in finding out what these mercenary forces have actually been doing in Iraq. Do you have any such? I would like, for starters, a source for reliable info about the number, composition, mission, and geographical distro of the major mercenary forces that can be traced back at least two years and correlated with major events in the country.

Accountability.

 

apparently the iraqis have a video showing the blackwater people killing innocent people

 

10 minutes ago, NY Times electronic edition posted:

"...The Iraqi government said Saturday that it expects to refer criminal charges to its courts within days in connection with a shooting here by a private American security company, and the Interior Ministry gave new details of six other episodes it is investigating involving the company.

The state minister for national security affairs, Shirwan al-Waili, said the government had received little information from the American side in the early days of a joint investigation of the shooting, which involved the company Blackwater USA and left at least eight Iraqis dead. But he said that the Iraqi investigation was largely completed and that he believed the findings were definitive. “The shots fired on the Iraqis were unjustifiable,” he said. “It was harsh and horrible.” ..."

Above is the first two paragraphs from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/world/middleeast/23blackwater.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

What I find most interesting (hundreds killed each day is not news or interesting any more) is to speculate how GWB will stop their trail and yet when convenient claim the Iraqi government is not a pupet government set up by the US.

Any guesses? I do not Think he can claim the presidential "pardon powers" extend to Iraq, so I expect the CIA will just pay off everyone to forget it or create procedural delays until they do. What do you think?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070922/ap_on_go_co/us_blackwater_probe

Christ, what a zoo.

But maybe we'll get some actual valuable intelligence out of our interrogation facilities at Gitmo, finally. If supplying Islamic terrorists in a war zone with stolen US weapons doesn't put someone in the "enemy combatant" category, what does? Let's start by waterboarding Krongard and the two captured Blackwater employees. If we really aren't doing that any more at Gitmo, let's send them to whatever our standard rendition site is in Turkey - I hear they've done good work for us in the past, and American lives might depend on this info.