Blackwater Blacklisted by Baghdad

i heard a rumor they killed a little girl

 

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The Iraqi government will 'allow' the American mercenary troops to remain. It's a sock puppet government with George the moron Bush running the show.

American mercenaries murder Iraqis...in the USA the mercenaries would be 'terrorists'.

 

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What you are asking for is an exhaustive psychological examination of every soldier, sailor, airman and Marine currently on active duty. I can't tell you what that would reveal.

What I can tell you is that the way PMCs and military units handle hostile situations is fundamentally different. Generally, PMCs will egress with their VIP in tow as quickly as possible, or in the case of static guard duty will call for help and sit tight until it arrives. They are normally highly restricted in what they can and cannot do, and can only apply deadly force in self defense. With a military element the same is not true. When engaged, SOP is to achieve fire superiority, retake the initiative, and immediately counterattack. A reasonable conclusion is that PMCs can be expected to respond with less force than the military in most cases, thus reducing the chance of civilian casualties.

 

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Nothing so definitive. Some clear, information based consideration of what the mercenaries have actually been doing in Iraq, and what the US soldiers have actually been doing in similar situations, is all. Some evidence base for taking this

to be a summary description of merc behavior in Iraq.

And some recognition that the Iraqi government has its reasons for this - no doubt Byzantine in their political meanings.

 

PMCs are subject to the UCMJ just like members of the military are. Except as civilians, they are only authorized to use deadly force in self defense, or in the defense of another. They are not authorized to conduct offensive operations or employ their weapons against anyone who is not a direct threat to them or the personnel under their protection.

Sure. I wish I understood them. I also happen to think that they will end up shooting themselves in the foot on this one. It is their choice though.

 

This tends to happen when your the invader. I think Bin Laden solved this little dilemma by referring to all citizens as insurgents. Maybe that is what you are suggesting we do in Iraq?

Become like Bin Laden?

 

Which would be great if there were the slightest sign of accountability - but instead we have numerous and consistent stories, videos, circumstantial evidences, accounts, etc, of mercenary behaviors that are not curbed by these limited authorizations. No consequences.

And we have no chain of command, no accountable authority, no reliable compilation of information even. If they were running an enforcement operation for local gangsters on the side, in their spare time, would anyone even know?

Does anyone in Iraq keep track of these guys?

 

Employers who are paying them a king's ransom for their skills?

You seem to think that these guys get paid to run around the country doing whatever they can to profit like a bunch of pirates. There are a LOT of popular myths about the nature of PMCs, in Iraq and elsewhere, which I myself was ignorant about before interacting with them directly. I think it stems from the "mercenary" mystique that has been built up over the years in other small wars (and Hollywood). In any case, the actual, boring truth is that these guys are really just glorified security guards, highly trained (almost entirely elite ex-military) and extremely professional. Much like the privateers of the American revolution, they are private citizens with a valuable skill set commissioned to fill a critical niche during a time of need, and they operate within the stipulations of their contracts.

http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?issueID=49&articleID=631

 

Apparently not. The king's ransom is coming from the US taxpayer and the Iraqi citizenry, neither able to find out what in hell is going on.

Granted, maybe some Iraqis know. The ones in Fallujah seemed to have definite opinions on the matter.

No. I seem to think there are a great many mercenaries in Iraq, mercenaries in general are not to be trusted, the Iraqis are not happy about what they have been doing, and they are accountable to no one.

But as long as piracy is on the table, we may as well notice that there are tens of thousands of mercenaries in Iraq, no one is keeping track of them in general, and something like eight billion dollars of US money as well as an unknown number of billions of Iraqi oil revenue is simply missing. We assume most of it is stolen by crony contractors of W&Co and Iraqis with experience under Saddam, but that would still leave plenty for others.

 

Red Army 11: "But I'm intrigued. What's this dastardly plan you speak of?"

Plan? Do you really think there has ever been a realistic plan for the great Iraq clusterfuck?

It's never been about rational plans. This entire adventure has been about naiive cowboy nation-building; a greedy grab; reckless speculation; a con-game- with the reputation of the USA as stolen collateral, ever since W's handlers started this utter mess. There is no realistic plan, but there is, as always, an all-too-real reality:

The Iraqi "government" has a net worth, and has Washington influence that pales to that of Blackwater. As a result, this little teapot-tempest is the reason why the lights will go down on that bright City on a Hill pipe-dream that was the New Democratic Freedom, America, and Israel-loving government of our Iraq Protectorate. Those ragheads are now off the reservation. The Iraq Expedition needs its Blackwater mercenaries.

Sure, a few thousand of these soldiers of fortune will be getting new business cards, with fresh new corporate logos. But the uppity A-rabs who have dissed Blackwater will quietly pay with their jobs, and then with their lives. Then the futile attempt at business as unusual will go on until the US withdrawal under the US Administration unfortunate enough to succeed the present one.

But that's another story- How both major American parties will try to lose the next Presidential election: Nobody wants to hump this dumpty.

 

Barren Macs: "I keep wondering how anyone can know which Iraqi is a "civilian" and not one of the many "insurgents" or "terrorists" in the country?"

If they run when you shoot them, they're terrorists. If they don't run, they're grizzled terrorists. Didn't you learn that in 'Nam?

 

mikenostic: "the individuals involved aren't going to be prosecuted. Whether or not the company gets thrown out is a diff't issue but that isn't really going to change much--there are plenty of other mercaneries (I mean contractors) waiting to take the job."

They'll just change corporate logos. There are no separte replacements for the numbers of all-American bullet-headed saxon-mothers' sons that Blackwater furnished. WHat's more, their pay and authorization after re-branding will still come from me and you (if you pay US Federal taxes and are not noticeably pissed off about the situation).

 

Sam: "Do the Blackwater militia count as insurgents?"

What the Baron said. Of course not: They're not in there; there's no Surge.

 

E3R: "I don't think the Iraqis are thinking this one through very well."

That's right: Don't mess with Massa's $oldiers.

"Given the situation described in the article, who would be more sparing in application of firepower?"

Marines in uniform. But don't forget "once a Marine..."

Americans out of uniform killing ferners aren't insergints Right?

 

E3R: "What I can tell you is that the way PMCs and military units handle hostile situations is fundamentally different."

No, they're both Custer Pie in Indian Country.

"Marines are shock troops trained to respond to any threat with brutal, overwhelming force."

And you want us to believe that Marines, and Marine tactics are absent from Blackwater?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7003473.stm

So they are foreign insurgents!

 

As I've said several times, all PMCs are accountable to different authorities, governed by the specific conditions of their respective contracts. Their mandate is limited solely to protecting particular assets/people/places as contracted. Their roles as such are strictly outlined. As a general catch-all, they are also held accountable to military law under the UCMJ just like any servicemember is. While they are excluded from prosecution under the Iraqi legal system, that is not a very big deal; so are servicemembers, other DoD personnel, DoS personnel, et al.

Also, I initially assumed you were referring to PMCs as mercenaries out of laziness, as many people often do. If you're seriously attempting to conflate what PMCs like Blackwater are doing in Iraq with the common definition of "mercenary" then you really are too confused to be discussing this.

You have an amusing tendency to spout one liners rather than address the arguments of people's positions. Why do you do this?

 

No, they are friendly combatants.

 

ah...let's send them a thank you card.

 

Bullets and fellatio

First, I would like to thank Otheadp for reminding me to check in on the DailyKos. Yesterday, the Kos himself posted what is alleged to be a Blackwater internal memorandum; the simplest of checks via Google suggest there's not much discussion about this yet, even to discredit it. So we should, of course, stay tuned.

The memorandum includes a bullet-point list that asserts, "Bombing occurred 25 yards outside our venue in Monsoor District", accuses a second bombing attempt, and accuses the press of distortions: "The press is reporting "civilian" deaths. The reality is these people were trying to kill Americans. They are insurgents and terrorists."

The list includes the statement that "We did our job. We protected embassy personnel against an attack meant to kill them." Blackwater also asserts that the Iraqi government cannot stop the company from operating in the area.

The BBC's Hugh Sykes reports that Iraqi victims of Sunday's fracas disagree with the Blackwater account:

Of course, it is easy to discount the witnesses' descriptions of events; after all, as Sykes reports, "Blackwater is especially widely resented, with one Iraqi saying that the company's employees are 'much worse than the American military'." And we know what that means, right? So why don't we all stop complaining, head over to Blackwater International, and suck off David G. Ray, who wrote the alleged gospel memorandum? After all, this war is going just dandy, and we have the folks at Blackwater to thank for it. And for all they do for the team, shouldn't the cheerleaders get the favors every once in a while?
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Notes:

Kos. "Surge!" DailyKos.com, September 19, 2007. See http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/20/04415/1251

Sykes, Hugh. "Iraqis angry at Blackwater shooting". BBC News, September 19, 2007. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7003473.stm ​