Black Holes: Key to the beginning and end of the universe?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Electro522, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. river

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    inotherwords everything we see about a galaxy is looked at from us looking at them

    what goes on from a 180 degree perspective

    so that they are looking or observing us
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    This makes absolutely no sense when in conjunction with your previous remark.


    But, as you yourself have noted: galaxies rotate.
    Albeit slowly.
    What makes you think that the "opposite side" of a galaxy is any different from the "side" we do observe?
     
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  5. river

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    is not about " different " really

    it is about just what is going on

    the complete picture rather than the assumed picture
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    One more time:
    What makes you think that the "opposite side" of a galaxy is any different from the "side" we do observe?

    What do you think is "special" about those galaxies that are edge-on to us?
     
  8. river

    Messages:
    9,791
    one more time

    “ Originally Posted by river
    is not about " different " really
    it is about just what is going on
    the complete picture rather than the assumed picture
     
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Again:
    What do you think is "special" about those galaxies that are edge-on to us?

    Oh wait, you're going to tell me that you are completely unaware that not all galaxies are edge-on and that we have photographs of complete galaxies (try something new called Google, type in "galaxy" and look at the images).

    Now, what "assumed picture" are you talking about?
     
  10. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    3,914
    Do you think we might discover more about galaxies if we had a 360 view? Do we learn more about Mars by going there? The moon? How bout if we could get up close and personal with a neutron star?

    We learn something new about things in our own back yard nearly everyday. It is just argumentative to suggest that having a more complete view of things far away would not be useful.
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Please re-read my answers.
    That's not what I'm arguing.
    I'm arguing against River's mistaken assumption that we don't have a "complete" view.
    He seems to be assuming that ALL galaxies are edge on to us, or that those few that are edge-on are somehow special, with no rationale to support this.
     
  12. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    2,387
    Stars form differently in my theory, so I can't really discuss the difference. But I don't really have an answer to them forming outside a Galaxy. I suppose a Galaxy could start to form, and then collapse again.
     
  13. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    That was not any impression I got. Unless River confirms your interpretation, it looks more like it reflects what you thought he was saying.
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,639
    Uh, okay.
    So what is he saying?
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,798
    I read your post. But black holes are not required for galaxies (or stars) to form. Indeed, a black hole will often destroy nearby stars, so it acts _against_ stellar formation.
     
  16. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    A black hole or in this case a SMBH (Something on order of a million solar masses or bigger). When there is enough hydrogen trapped by the gravity source and compressed into a rotating disk and then compressed some more by the quasar energy being released, your going to have a fairly dense cloud of gas in orbit around the BH. Far enough away from the BH to be safe and dense enough for star formation as more gas is captured it will only add to the gravity of the BH and help in capturing more gas until we have a galaxy full of stars. One point I'm trying to make is that hydrogen gas in free space needs a large gravity source to be captured and compressed enough to have any hope of ever becoming a star. I just can't believe a cloud of hydrogen in free space could ever collapse into a galaxy full of stars. You need a gravity source to get the ball rolling. I know what the accepted best guess is and for me that's just not good enough.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    How does a solar system form?
    Or are you positing a BH in each sun?
     
  18. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    A shock wave from a nearby nova could create the turbulance needed for stellar production.
     
  19. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Dywyddyr

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  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Just asking.
    Maybe a galaxy forms because solar systems "collect" together.
    (Will have to read up on this):
    Galaxies are a result of solar systems rather than solar systems are a result of galaxies. :shrug:
     
  21. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    That's good when you alraedy have stars. But even in a galaxy full of stars the supernovas are not real common. So where in empty space are you going to find that action in any kind of time frame that would make it reasonable.
     
  22. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure whether to take you seriously or not. Just how do you think the first stars formed? Or have you ever thought about it much? If you find any links that makes reasonable sense to you please post them.
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    If black holes were around shortly after the big bang then any material they ate would result in outgoing radiation.
    Pressure from that radiation would "stir" the clouds of material and cause currents, clumping, thinning and variations in density.
    You'd only need a slight localised increase in gravity to start the ball rolling.
    (Plus, AFAIK, that matter wasn't exactly distributed homogeneously and evenly to start with).
     

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