Black Holes Feed On Quantum Foam, Says Cosmologist

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by cav755, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. cav755 Banned Banned

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    'Black Holes Feed On Quantum Foam, Says Cosmologist'
    https://medium.com/p/d5d50d5a99f2

    "If Spaans is right, black holes grow by feeding on spacetime itself and their quantum feeding habits effectively solve the problem of how the biggest black holes become so massive, so quickly."

    Spaans is saying spacetime has mass.

    Label it whatever you want, empty space has mass.
     
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  3. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure who authored the page you linked, but the author referenced the Paper : "On Quantum Contributions to Black Hole Growth", by M. Spaans. It is available at the following Link : http://arxiv.org/pdf/1309.1067v2.pdf

    The author of the article that you linked in the OP : https://medium.com/p/d5d50d5a99f2 , seems to present a skewed synopsis of the original Paper. That is just my impression, so...better to read the original and decide for yourself.
     
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  5. cav755 Banned Banned

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    "The effects of Wheeler’s quantum foam on black hole growth are explored from an astrophysical perspective. Quantum fluctuations in the form of mini (10 −5 g) black holes can couple to macroscopic black holes and allow the latter to grow exponentially in mass on a time scale of ∼ 10 9 years."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam

    "Additionally, quantum foam can be used as a qualitative description of subatomic space-time turbulence at extremely small distances (on the order of the Planck length). At such small scales of time and space, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle allows energy to briefly decay into particles and antiparticles and then annihilate without violating physical conservation laws. As the scale of time and space being discussed shrinks, the energy of the virtual particles increases."

    The same incorrect logic applies to Laurence Krauss and the mass associated with a proton which is not contained in the quarks.

    Watch the following video starting at 0:45.

    "Empty space is not empty"
    [video=youtube;y4D6qY2c0Z8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4D6qY2c0Z8[/video]

    "If you removed all of the particles, all of the radiation, absolutely everything from space and all that remained was nothing that nothing would weigh something. ... Nothing is really a boiling, bubbling brew of virtual particles popping into and out of existence in a time scale so short you can not see them." - Lawrence M. Krauss

    I'm just waiting for mainstream physics to realize a boiling, bubbling brew of virtual particles, with mass, popping into and out of existence is superfluous.

    Empty space has mass.

    Particles of matter move through and displace the mass associated with empty space.

    In a double slit experiment it is the mass associated with empty space which waves.
     
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  7. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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  8. cav755 Banned Banned

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    Or, mainstream physics can make stuff up like Many-worlds or insist you can't ask what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment like the Copenhagen interpretation.
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The typical rantings and ravings and decrying of the establishment so often used by conspiracy nutters.

    Empty space/time has no measurable mass.
    The aether as you present does not exist.
     
  10. cav755 Banned Banned

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    The article reads as it is stating the opposite.

    'On Quantum Contributions to Black Hole Growth'
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1309.1067

    "Quantum fluctuations in the form of mini (10 −5 g) black holes can couple to macroscopic black holes and allow the latter to grow exponentially in mass on a time scale of ∼ 10 9 years."

    "the Milky Way center is a candidate to verify this quantum space-time effect"

    "This work explores the possibility that space-time fluctuations, as an expression of quantum gravity (Wheeler 1957), allow the mass growth of BHs on cosmologically interesting time scales (Spaans 1997, 2013a)."
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,647


    The single article is a theoretical concept. It does not support what you are so obsessively pushing at every and all opportunities.
    One swallow does not a Summer make.
    You are grasping at straws.
    Space/time has no measurable mass.
     
  12. cav755 Banned Banned

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    "Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness." - Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel Laureate in Physics, endowed chair in physics, Stanford University
     
  13. rpenner Fully Wired Staff Member

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    The only work which cites this paper to-date seems to be papers co-authored by a friend* of the author of this paper, therefore it is not "mainstream" in the sense of even a theoretical prediction founded on on a speculative hypothesis yet. Those papers don't seem to draw on his predictions predicated on Wheeler's quantum foam.

    *Alternately, someone who did a keyword search to sex-up their bibliography.

    http://arxiv.org/abs/1310.3680 just includes it as "various" without further discussion.
    A later paper cites it without correctly classifying its mechanism: http://arxiv.org/abs/1311.5866
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Can you show me a reference as to how massive space/time is and what space/time weighs?
    Thank you.
     
  15. cav755 Banned Banned

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    Here are a couple. There are more which refer to the "deformation of continuous media" and a bunch which describe "empty" space as an ideal fluid. I can post those if interested.

    'Quantum aether and an invariant Planck scale'
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.3753

    "this version of aether may have some bearing on the abundance of Dark Matter and Dark Energy in our universe."

    "mass of the aether"

    'From Analogue Models to Gravitating Vacuum'
    http://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.1155

    "The aether of the 21-st century is the quantum vacuum, which is a new form of matter. This is the real substance"
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,647


    Stop side-stepping the issue..

    tell me, what is the mass and weight of space/time?
    And who measured it and with what?
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I'll help you out some more.....

    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
    http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/GeneralInterest/Harrison/DoubleSlit/DoubleSlit.html
    We conclude that whatever is going on to cause the interference pattern does not involve two or more electrons interacting with each other. And yet, with one electron at a time in the system, with both slits open there are places on the screen where the electrons do not go, although with only one slit open some electrons do end up at that position.
    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6Mq352f0E



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ
     
  18. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    4,098
    Pretty funny stuff. Space has mass. If it has mass then I'm confused why we can't feel it's weight in the earth gravitational field? Why didn't the universe collapse before we could even ask this dumb question? Space has mass. LOL.
     
  19. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    The probability you read these papers is nil. All your doing is showing us you know how to cut and paste using computer software.
     
  20. cav755 Banned Banned

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    The first article places a range on the mass of the aether.
     
  21. cav755 Banned Banned

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    Displaced aether pushing back and exerting inward pressure toward matter is gravity.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The aether as you present does not exist.
     
  23. cav755 Banned Banned

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    The particle does not travel through both slits whatever Dr. Quantum has you believing.

    What waves in a double slit experiment is the aether.
     

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