Black Crime

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by alexb123, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    577
    Great idea. However, in this thread we are dealing with black crime. Notice the title of the thread. So that’s what we’re talking about. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to participate.

    Bells, in this last post of yours, it seems that you’re having a bit of trouble in reading comprehension. Okay. Yes, it’s been shown repeatedly that blacks have a much lower IQ than whites (15 point disparity). Yes, that’s a fact. I did not choose it to be this way. I do, however, choose not to be ignorant about it even if it means people like you will label me a racist.
    link
    Do you see? I am not making this shit up. It’s time to wake up, Bells. The abilities of people and groups are not always equal. In fact, they rarely are.

    Secondly, I did not fail to recognize the other factors that play roles in the lives of blacks, such as racism, culture and socioeconomic factors. I clearly address this in my very first post. I only said that biology probably a significant role. You did not read it carefully enough. “Instead you put it down to mere biology. And it is a cop out on your part.”. Again. This is completely incorrect. Please read what I write before you respond.

    By the way, did you ever consider that biology might be accountable for their socioeconomic situation? Why is it so unbelievable hard to imagine such a notion? Familiar with Occaim’s Razor? I’ll admit, it’s not pretty, but it does make sense.


    I… am speechless. What is your point here?

    I don’t know. Really, really super-duper racist?
    Once again, I never denied the role of socioeconomic factors in their situation.


    This is priceless.
    "So a white person living in poverty in a trailer park has the same biology as a black person?"
    Really.. where do you come up with this?

    I never said that I knew it was biological. Not once. I swear, I could count about 15 straw-man fallacies in this last post of yours. You should really pay more attention when you write. I also never said that skin color results in lower IQ. I did, however, say that blacks on average have lower IQs than whites. Which is in fact, true.

    The only time I said I knew something is when I said that blacks are more violent in groups. This is based on personal experience. Again. Please read what I write before you respond. Try to understand it the way it was meant to be understood and not the way you want to.
     
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  3. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    577
    Here are some data: (It was pretty damn easy to find this data. Let me know if any of you would like more. Also let me know if any of the links have failed.)



    This link shows that in 2002, 11.8% of the US population was black, where 62.8% was white.
    link



    This link shows that in 2003, 35% (5,729 total) of murders in the United States were committed by blacks, compared to 32% (5,132 total) of murders in the US by whites.
    link
    Alright. That's the data. I’m going to do my best to try and not come off as condescending, but let’s do some math.

    In the United States in 2002, there were approximately 5.3x more whites than blacks and yet in 2003, blacks actually committed more murders (5,729 vs. 5,132)! Are you getting any of this?




    Here we have the link Bells supplied us indicating that South Africa is the 2nd most violent country in the world.
    link




    This link tells us the percentage of blacks in England and Wales in 2001 (about 2%).
    link

    This link gives us the ethnicity breakdown for crimes in England and Wales in 2003. Nothing shocking.
    link

    I’ll let you come to your own conclusions on that one.


    The point of this is to give those of whom who "have yet to see a problem" something to chew on.




    Alright. And since I know this is a highly emotionally charged issue I will say that it’s not my intention to bring any blacks down. I’m only interested in enlightenment and cutting through political correctness bullshit so we can find real answers and solutions to problems.
     
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  5. radicand Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    638
    Yes, you are.
     
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  7. radicand Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    638

    I hope you can see why some may say that you are a racist? Think about everything you have said, what does it all boil down to?
     
  8. Math Question Registered Member

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    15
    I'm Black and am not criminal, I'm more peaceful and intellectual than most Whites.

    But yes, I'm very unique for a Negroid, there is a trend, perhaps cultural, perhaps biological, or both, that cause African crime and poverty and general low socio-economic status. The main person making a biological case for Blacks is Professor J. Philippe Rushton. His reseach can be found at http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/faculty/rushton_pubs.htm and http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/ and http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/JP_Rushton/Race.htm

    Another Professor on the biological side is Richard Lynn, see http://www.rlynn.co.uk/

    But don't automatically judge all Blacks like that, because you may think I'm negative just because I'm African, when in fact I am more peaceful and intellectual than most Whites. So, I would suggest allowing individuals to prove themselves.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2005
  9. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,959
    I'm listening, though I hardly think I really need to anymore. I think I know the basics well enough. I'm not trying to get you, too, on my bad side. But, to me, this is one area without enough passion, especially from the resistance, the resistance to the Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond-types still out there.

    So true, duendy. I'm here, and that is all I can do.
    It is a "loaded" title. Whether you meant to do it or not.

    Who do you mean when you say "these people?" Should be "people," all "people," who are raised in a fashion that they think it is their only recourse. Not "black" people, not "white" people, not "muslims," not "jews," not any one racial or ethnic group of people. The term is criminal. NOT "black crime." Go to a predominantly white city, and you will find predominantly "white" crime. Go to a predominantly Muslim city, and you will find predominantly "Muslim" crime. Everything is relative.

    When you see predominantly "black" crime in New Orleans, after a hurricane, look at the stats for the city's poor and/or impoverished before the hurricane. Poverty, to me, is one of the biggest characteristics leading up to crime. This thread should be "poor crime" if anything. Not "Black Crime." Why are there more poor blacks, or hispanics, than whites? I don't know. You tell me.

    Like I've said, this is a loaded title, and should be changed, or locked, imo. You should, at the least, change the title to "poor crime."

    Side-stepping what?! Contradicting what?! You have shown NO fucking credible evidence that they are more violent.

    I think you are outright LYING!! Which studies are you citing, again?
    You'd be right, for once. See your own fallacy?

    Almost exactly right. Everyone, EVERYONE, is a result of biology and "environment." Not "culture." Why do you think that the environment for black people in america the god-damned great is so much worse for them than the one that white people have been raised in, to date?

    In the case of black people in america the great or England even, I think environment definitely overshadows that of biology. Don't focus on one without giving the other (environment) a good look too. Which is what I think you are doing.


    Let's call it your apparent "focus." Your apparent "predisposition." Your apparent "bent towards a racist argument."
    All races have the potential to show these same qualities. Not all, however, are led to believe that they possess, or even "can" possess, these qualities. Thus my fucking disgust with the title of this fucking thread.

    will do. with extreme dislike. thanks for the warning.
     
  10. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    2,959
    Thank god, or whoever, for 9/11/2001. At least for a little while. Funny how one thing affects another. Now what is it going to take for us whiteys to stop hating the Muslims? For us whiteys to stop keeping the other man down? I wonder.
     
  11. Huwy Secular Humanist Registered Senior Member

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    890
    New Orleans is only the latest example.
     
  12. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    577
    I take it that you didn't read my previous post. Read it and let me know what you think. No reason to use the word 'fucking'.

    Why would I lie? Do you think I actually like the fact that blacks are much more violent than other ethnicities? Once again, read the links in my last post. Make sure that the statistics I posted are credible (they are) and put it all together. I think you will be surprised. And probably angry.
    To be completely honest, I do not. Please explain my fallacy.

    Isn't culture part of a person's "environment" and hence have an impact on a person's development? How can you seriously say that a person isn't even partly a result of his/her culture? No offense dude, but HOW CAN YOU THINK THAT? Really. This astounds me.

    As for their comparably worse situation in American, I think you can probably guess (if you've read my ideas carefully) what I think the reasons are.

    Yes, you cannot neglect environment. But do we not create our environment? We affect our environment and it affects us back. Do we not? The feeback/response loop goes on and on and it compounds itself continually. Nature and nuture shape us, but humans are unique in that our nature lets us manipulate nature moreso than any other animal on this planet. And my point is that this makes nature so important and significant with humans. Does this make any sense?

    Why are people always telling me this? I know this, alright? I KNOW this.
    "Not all, however, are led to believe that they possess, or even "can" possess, these qualities. "
    Yep, it's a shame.
     
  13. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,959
    I have read your previous posts. I'm good like that. One question. Do you think whites would be considered the more violent race if they had been unjustly enslaved, cruelly treated, abused and put down by wealthy blacks for hundreds of years? Simple. Yes, culture is a part of environment, but not all of what is considered environemnt. Okay, two questions. Do you not think a time will come when this thread might easily be labeled "White Crime?"

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. radicand Registered Senior Member

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    638
    Have you even the slightest inkling of what you just wrote?
     
  15. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    2,959
    I do. The real question is do you?
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    30,358
    apendrapew:

    Remember: data is nothing without interpretation. Garbage interpretation means garbage conclusion.

    Now, have you considered possible reasons?

    Obviously, you've considered one possibility: that black people are biologically prone to violence - much moreso that white people.

    Can you suggest any other possible reasons why the murder rate by black people might be higher? Come on, show me you can think, rather than just react with prejudice.

    Possible reasons?

    I suggest that those who have considered only one possible cause for the problem have something to chew on.
     
  17. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    But it's certainly one of the possiblities which you seem so set against! Why don't YOU consider it as one of the possiblities instead of dismissing the notion out of hand ....and worse, say/imply that the poster is just "racist"?

    Baron Max
     
  18. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    577
    I was surfing our beloved Sciforums and found this:
    link
    It’s describes an anti-rape condom. Read the first sentence in the article.

    Cottontop3000:


    Now you’re focusing more on the causes of the problem, which is a good new direction for this debate because it means that now you’re at least acknowledging the existence of a black crime/violence problem. We're making progress. Does this mean that you no longer think I’m “outright lying” when I said that blacks are more violent than whites? If so, I would say it’s a credit to your ability to learn and have a meaningful exchange.

    As for your question, I would say that answer depends on whom is considering which is the more violent ethnicity and it would also depend on which ethnicity is in fact more violent.

    As for your second question, I would respond with this: We are having a debate! We are talking and exchanging ideas. Where does crime enter the equation? What is it about these debates that compells people to say such asinine things?!

    Now I’ve answer your questions. I would appreciate it if you’d answer the questions I had for you in my previous post. I am very interested in what you have to say.


    JamesR:


    I agree, James!! Thanks for the reminder! My interpretation is that in the US at time around 2002-2003 blacks had a murder rate almost six times higher than whites! My interpretation is also that South Africa is the second most violent country in the world! My interpretation is also that despite composing only about 2% of the population in the England and Wales, blacks commit close the same amount of crime as whites! But hey – that’s just me.
    What is your interpretation, James?

    James. Let me know what it would take to convince you of the existence of a black crime/violence problem. You are going to come out of this argument enlightened even if I have to drag you through it kicking and screaming.
    James, you are killing me. JAMES. Alright? Do I have your attention? I HAVE CONSIDERED OTHER POSSIBLE REASONS FOR THIS. Read my very first post! This problem with people arguing with me without reading my posts is getting out of control. I don’t know if they are deliberately constructing strawman fallacies thinking that I’m not going to call them on it or if they truly have terrible reading comprehension.
    That’s probably my favorite quip of yours in this thread.


    Are you asking what I think the underlying reasons are for their situation? Do I need to re-explain myself? Can’t you just help me out by reading what I’ve already written?
    Again, James. I did not say that biology is the only factor at play here. I did, however express how incredibly naïve I think it is to think that biology doesn’t play an important and integral role in culture, values and behavior.

    In fact, this is probably one of the greatest discoveries of our century: the extent to which genes determine who we are.
     
  19. radicand Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    638
    Think again, you really do not have clue as what you wrote. Read it without emotion, and see if you can detect what I read?

    If you are still having problems, I will go over it with you.
     
  20. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,959
    I agree. The real question, as you so belatedly put it, is why there is more black crime, right now, than white? What is your answer to this very simple question?
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,358
    Baron Max:

    I have considered it, Baron Max. I'm not aware of any evidence that black people, on average, are more prone to violence than white people, once environmental factors are eliminated.


    apendrapew:

    Not much evidence of any further thought from you in your last post.
     
  22. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Then in poverty stricken areas of mainly white people, the crime rates should be about the same, right? So, take Appalachian area of Virginia, West Virginian and Kentucky .....why is the crime rate not the same?

    Take the poverty stricken areas of the Mexican populations in California, Arizona and Texas .....why are those areas not crime-ridden like the mainly black slums of, say, Detroit, Chicago and New York(and others)?

    If it's environmentally driven, then those white poverty areas should also be crime-ridden like the black areas ......right?

    Baron Max
     
  23. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    Because there's a fundamental difference between poor rural societies and poor innercities. There's an environmental difference.

    At any poor innercity, regardless of the ethnicity of the population, the crime rate will be higher than a poor countryside with three hick dirt farmers.

    Also, what about Mexican crime? There's been no mention of that, nor of Chinese crime, or Italian or Irish crime. LA has some vicious Mexican gangs.
     

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