Apendrapew My point is why distinguish black violence as opposed to violence in general? Why not try to discuss the violent nature of our society as a whole? Why instead, do you and Alex for that matter attempt to put it down to black violence and to your argument, to black biology? You totally fail to address the reasons as to why blacks in Western society are projected as being more violent. You barely touched on it. Instead, you classify it as being biological. Interesting... So now it is an excessive amount of testosterone and low IQ which makes them violent. So blacks are now less intelligent then the white people? Apen, my whole point in my previous post is that by merely claiming it to be biological, you have also failed to recognise reasons and causes that has resulted in blacks being over-represented in your criminal justice system. You fail to recognise or even acknowledge the socio-economic factors that plague the black community who live below the poverty line in the US for example. You fail to address the issue of a failing educational system due to lack of Government funding. You do not even look at the fact that black people in Western societies are more prone to being under closer scrutiny by the police for example because of the prevailing notion that blacks commit more crimes and therefore must be policed a lot more and as a result, even if they are doing nothing, they automatically come under suspicion of things such as loitering. You also do not look at their high unemployment levels when compared to whites, because in part, caused by racism. Instead you put it down to mere biology. And it is a cop out on your part. And it is interesting to note how you apply your argument to just colour. What about Aboriginals in Australia who are also over-represented in the Australian criminal system? Is it biological for them as well because they are "black"? Do they have a lower IQ as well because they are black? Or do the factors that I listed above come into it? Are there many blacks in tennis, skiing, track ice skating, cycling, to name but a few? Do you even see how racist that comment from you was? Yes, but then look at the other countries in that list. The majority of them are not 'black' countries. And as to South Africa being second on the list. Why do you think that is? Could it be again that their poverty driven by the socio-economic factors in their country, coupled with a lack of educational funding, bad health care, racism, etc, have anything to do with it. The same can be applied to the higher than average murder rate in Columbia.. a country plagued by poverty. I am not saying that blacks are more violent because I have yet to see any proof that blacks are more violent. You put it all down to mere biology because of what you read long ago in some psychology books. But you show no proof of it. You claim all this because you just "know". If we are going to look at murder rates per capita, then one could also say that Russians are more violent than the blacks in the US. Yet, you also do not consider that. You see, I find this to be interesting. So whites are less violent than blacks? Even Alex acknowledges that in the UK, whites have as much propensity to be as violent as blacks... eg football hooligans are predominantly white. I find it interesting that Alex starts this thread after a woman is shot by a black person, yet he did not start a thread titled 'white crime' after 100 or so white youths attacked 3 children because they looked Middle Eastern. But no, that's not 'white crime'... because it's not in white "biology" to be violent (insert sarcasm here)... Instead, you look at 'black crime' instead. As I pointed out to you before, why not look at crime in general or violence in general. Why point the finger to only blacks? I mean, you want a perfect example of white violence? Look at Cottontop here... So a white person living in poverty in a trailer park has the same biology as a black person? You do not look at the individual's biology Apen... You look at the whole race and say that it is biological for that particular race or because of their colour. That is what I and many others here find so hard to believe. So by saying you "know" it's biological, you are now merely speculating? Apen, you come off as being racist when you make such statements and when you claim that a whole group of people are more prone to being violent because of their colour. You come off as being rapist when you make a claim that colour results in a lower IQ... And all these claims are all unfounded... all you have come up with as a back-up to all your claims has been to only say because "I know". Now you "tell me why this is so"..