Black Crime

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by alexb123, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    James you are saying there is no black crime problem but the black community is saying there is a black crime problem when it comes to black on black shootings as they are called in the UK. Now I am saying this is the tip of the iceberg and its petty crimes that lead on to these bigger crimes and that they should be tackled at the grass roots.

    If you want to deny this type of crime please talk to the family of the lady in Peckham South London who was shoot and killed at the weekend. Shooting is rare in the UK but it is becoming more common place because of these types of crime. It is a problem the police say it is, the black community say it is, the general public say it is.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    alexb123:

    Are they?

    Well, perhaps, but that has nothing to do with race.

    Guns and shootings are a problem, I agree.

    I thought this thread was about "Black Crime".

    Are you saying white people don't shoot each other?
     
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  5. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    "this tread is about solutions"

    oh right. stupid white men gonna work it out? is that so?....that means even MORE trouble don't it??
     
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  7. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    we can only rather hope you go away, but unfortunately many more like-yous seem to pop up. THAT is the problem
     
  8. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    People. I'm gonna try my hardest to not be emotional here. I'm a white texan, just for your fucking information.

    Those of you, and there are a few, I'm sad to say, who appear to be "anti-black": Baron Max, Alexb123, apendrapew. First of all, where are your sources for the shit you are saying? Where are your references? Where are your accredited punk-ass bitches? You've got none, really, do you?

    Let's look at this objectively. You seem to be saying, as a group of old (or young) white men, that blacks are inferior, because they "seem" to have higher rates of crime? Is that right? We are talking about black males, after all, right? You seem to say that you have no problem with black females, right? Is this right? Correct me if I am wrong. Let's start, again, here. Anyone care to correct me so fucking far?!
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    Yes... What can be done.. But first, why don't you give a proper definition as to what constitutes "black violence". Is it solely violence perpetrated by black people? If that is the case, shouldn't you be comparing this to crimes committed by white people? Or how about Asians and South Americans for that matter? What are the global figures comparing "black violence" to violence committed by other races? But you bypass all of this...

    Ah yes... I do so love it when issues such as this is put down to mere biology. So apen, please tell us how it is biological that black people are more violent? Have you pinpointed a particular gene to show that it is simply "biology"?

    Noted by whom? Because so far, all you have given us is that you live in a predominantly white area with few black people so "you just know" and that you have a few black friends who behave in ways that are appropriate to you... so again.. "you just know".

    So to look at your point here, would you say that if a white person were to live in, say, Columbia, would they be more likely to commit murder since Columbia has the highest murder rate on a global scale... would that white individual "assimilate" into the Columbian culture and possibly become a murderer. And on that note, it is interesting to see that it is not a predominantly black country that has topped the bill for highest rates of murder per capita. I mean, just look at the top 10 list:

    1. Colombia 0.61 per 1000 people
    2. South Africa 0.49 per 1000 people
    3. Jamaica 0.32 per 1000 people
    4. Venezuela 0.31 per 1000 people
    5. Russia 0.20 per 1000 people
    6. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people
    7. Estonia 0.10 per 1000 people
    8. Latvia 0.10 per 1000 people
    9. Lithuania 0.10 per 1000 people
    10. Belarus
    Link

    Hmmmm... black culture and "biology" indeed. So are Russians more prone to commit murder because of their "biology" when compared to African Americans?

    So what are "white values"? Please tell us. Do whites simply not commit violent crimes? Is it not in your "biology"? And what is a "regular white"? Is Timothy McVeigh a "regular white" for example? Or is he a deviation? How about serial killers as another example. The US produces more serial killers than any other country. Up to 85% of the world's serial killers are in America. And going through the list, the majority are in fact white. So does that mean that whites (white males in particular) are biologically inclined to be serial killers? Are they classified as "regular whites" and take on "white values"?

    When one looks at murders committed via poisoning in the US as another example, it shows that the perpetrators are usually predominantly white:

    So is this part of the "white values"? That whites poison others more often than those of other races? Is poisoning a 'white crime'? Is it "biological" for whites to poison others? Do you see where I am going with this apen?

    And this documented evidence is where exactly? Ah but of course, you live in a predominantly white community, so you know this to be true... how silly of me to ask you to prove it.

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    In light of your statement, do poisonings and serial murders occur more in 'white culture'? So do these bad things 'happen when a white culture is produced'? Do you even see how ridiculous these types of propositions sound?

    So they are poor and receive a lesser standard of education and educational funding because of their biology? What about people classify as 'poor white trailer trash' in the US? Is it in their biology as well? Again, do you even see how silly propositions such as yours actually are? Not only are they baseless, they make absolutely no sense.

    Really? Well lets look at the murder rates on a global scale again shall we? Columbia has a higher murder rate than South Africa. Is it in the "biology" of Columbians to kill more? Is it in the biological make up of the former Soviet block population to commit more murders than say... blacks in the US?

    And sorry apen, but you have yet to make any sense. Just claiming "I know" does not cut it.

    Yes.. integrate the blacks further into white society so that they become more like "regular whites". In that case, can we also expect to see an increase in black serial killers? And please, do define what you mean by "black culture" as opposed to other cultures.

    Really? Maybe you should start looking things up and doing some comparing Apen. Because based on your sense and what you "know"... Russians could also say that 'white Russian culture' produces more killers than the so called "black culture" of the US.

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    Nooo... you don't think blacks are inferior. You just think their biological make-up makes them more inclined to being violent compared to whites. And the "I have a few black friends" lines always amuse me because it shows the depth of your actual ignorance. You are only friends with them because they act like a white person... because they fit into your own little box of what what constitutes good behaviours and characteristics.. and for you, that appears to mean that they must think like a "regular white" person and have "white values"..

    Pray tell, what is "a black problem"? Can it be construed as being the same as a 'white problem' in Russia? Or a 'South American problem' in Columbia? After all, if you are looking at the "biology" of black people in white countries in regards to their crime rates, you can't ignore the "biology" of other nationalities as well now can you?
     
  10. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    why aren't you correcting me, so far?!
     
  11. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    I base all I have said on Operation Trident, Which has been set up to deal with Black on Black crime. Please look this up if you are not from the UK. I also base it on the McPherson report that states that street crime in the uk between blacks and white are of committed in equal numbers. However, blacks only make up 1%/2% of the population therefore simple maths will tell you that there is a black crime problem.

    Please don't say I am not basing my thread in facts because that is not true. Also I am NOT saying anything negative about Black people apart from the crime problem. I am not even saying that young black males are to blame. If we could all take a step back and ask ourselves what could be causing these problems rather than pretending they are not happening then we might get somewhere. Society could be to blame, racism, poverty or gene's etc. I am personally only look for more knowledge on this subject.


    I also have a theory about why this might be happening but I wanted a general view first.

    Please could people reframe from jumping in with emotional lead reply’s and lets talk objectively on both sides of the argument

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  12. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Cotton also I see Black females as doing well in fact better than adverage thats not racist that means that there is hope. Education is the key here. Black males drop out of school so they get of to a bad start. If we can learn where black females (often from the same homes) are getting it right it might help black males to get a better start in life.

    If you see that as wrong, then I don't know what to say.
     
  13. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    I am Dyslexic and this is classed as disability discrimination. I am undertaking my PhD in Health Psychology so I am far from uneducated.

    Please stop lowering yourself to personal insults they are clearly only used by people who don't have a good argument. I will also be reporting you for a personal attack.
     
  14. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Part of the thinking behind this tread is that you cannot cure a problem until you accept there is a problem.

    This whole situation can be likened to someone with a hearing problem claiming to be able to hear normally. How will there ever be an answer to the problem if you say there is no problem?

    Some people in society believe they are forefilling some kind of social duty to protect black people from negative comments. I believe that this does not help them and allows them to remain within a sub-culture.

    Maybe if the Black community were prepared to admit to the bigger problem of black crime and not just the "black on black" crime that is sited as a problem by the police and black community alike in the UK. Then we might see some real solutions to these problems.


    Cotton you do not live in the UK yet you try to discredit the situation in a country that you don't live in. Please take this into account when replying, because from here it is making you look like you don't know what you are talking about.

    Also you asked for facts to back up my posts I gave them to you. You then gave me insults in return. I will not doubt your level of education because I do not know you but I do believe you are too emotional and should calm down. This forum is a mixing pot of views and that is its greatest quality. Lets not try and insult and attack other people who do not share the same views as us. It is this non-expectance of people unlike ourselves that is at the root of all discrimination.
     
  15. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

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    Why the title "Black Crime?" Huh? You give yourself away from the beginning, [deleted]. Do you honestly think any rational person is going to give you a second-glance, [deleted]? Sure, you will attract white supremacists, but where will that get you? Nowhere. Thus, learn a little lesson here, [deleted]. You will [deleted]. [deleted]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2005
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Well, if we can't talk/debate about realities of "black against black" crime, then we also shouldn't talk about instances of "white against black" crime either, right? And if so, then there should be no such thing as a "racist" crime, right? Or is "racism" only a one-way issue for y'all?

    Baron Max
     
  17. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    I do not just see problems with young black males. Here in the UK we have a big problem with young white males being envolved in drink fuelled violence. We also have football hooligans problem which involves mainly whites.

    Look, I will even call this form of social problem "white violence" Have I just turned on my own race here? I think not, just the same as I have not turned on the black race.

    The reason that I brought up the black crime problem at this time is because here in London a lady holding a baby was apparantly randomly shot and killed, while holding a baby, this very weekend. People here are again shock by this level of violence committed by 2 black youths who were only 14 and 16.

    A few years ago we DID NOT have a big gun crime problem in this country. But it is now a growing problem and it is a cast iron fact that gun crime is mainly within the black community.
     
  18. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Its good to see that you admit you need correcting

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  19. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    alex kiddo, i lie in the UK, and will play good cop for now/

    so, you are doing a course in health psychology are you? whats this for, your essay?.....or have you actually gont INTO the communities you eem to speak and know a lot of, and 'got yer hands dirty'--done some 'field work'...TALKED TO PEOPLE?

    i actually now shudder when i hearthe State talk about 'health psyhology'....you are seemingly not unerstanding the irony of your situation areyou BEING COMPLETELYNAIVE ?OUT E REAL real heavy shitviolence of the history of psychiatry and psy>hology>>>>>yeah? even my keyboards gone hayywireme bringn it up!

    if you study behind the scenes of your chosen vocation< you will__if you dare look__real HEAVY SHIT racism etc etc> terrible pesudoscientific social control directed at poor people and people of the darjker skin colour< and of course<womoen!

    this enterprise has been created by whitemen>>>>>>ypu keep berating Cotton
    for showing emotion>>>>hahq tis actually is completely typical> for the most feared thing of your chosen profession is the SHOW OF EMOTION>>>yet< thew white peple who are at the top of tis establishment< with thier reserved ways< manners< and etiquette are some of the truly meanest col blooded hearless fukers ever to hit this planet!>>>>>>

    so whats this lot got to do wit thedebate?
    everything> what you are inquiring about is incredibl complex> >>>@pasychological health hastheir answer>>>and you reveal it in your words> it is to DRUG poor troublesome whitepeople and especially black people and their children so they will not rock the boat>>>>thisis alreADY going on!!>>>more and more children being put on toxic drugs to @fit in achool@ etc

    >>>>>>>>>i like othes here am very not happy wit your @white@ crime @black@ crime language< yeah? crime is crime> you will her many balck people in the communities you speak of feel vrryoffended if you call crime @BlACK CRIME@>>>so i dont recommend it>>>if you go!>>>crme is crime> it hasn@t no colour

    realizing this lets look at mayb some reasons>>>>>>>>>>cultural ecret manipulations which excacerabte innter city crime> this will include the flooding of hard drugs into the communities< and guns___you will find reports about this if you search___checkout @DRUG WAR@ by DAN RUSSELL< he will show you things that you wouldn@thave thought of> he will shake your safe boat!!

    there is the promotion of gangsterism by big corporates who are making millions from it> nd then gangsterism becomes chic for all colours!>>>heard of the >>>MAFIA by chance? or the US governMENT?

    HEARD ABOUT HAVING TO LIVE IN GRIM OVERCROWDED FUKIN VILE SOULESS GHETTOS?ESTATEWS QHERE YOU HAVE TO BE SEEN TO BE HARD OR YOU WILL GET SERIOUSLY SEEN TO?>>>just wonderin
     
  20. sniffy Banned Banned

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    alexb123
    evidence evidence evidence
    Project Trident was set up to tackle 'black on black' crime as the media like to call it. Others call it gun crime although it certainly isn't just black people involved in that. Why is this a problem for you? There are other projects to tackle drug crime, domestic violence and rape, child abuse, youth crime, internet crime (and there's plenty of that in evidence here!).

    The examples mentioned just don't happen to be called white on white crime. Look at the statistics for violent acts caused by men! If only we could tackle that one we'd be living in utopia before you could scream 'castration'. Or violent crime caused by alcohol (85%). In certain areas where populations may be predominantly black obviously there will be a certain amount of black on black crime. Guess what in predominantly white areas most of the crime is white on white!

    Go away young alexb - maybe visit a library in a largish city (Manchester for example) and go to the section on history. Then visit the sections on anthropology and sociology and see what you can find on this subject. There's plenty out there examining the very complex reasons behind the causes of crime in society. I think you'll find it's a bit more than just black or white - there are some grey areas too.

    And cottontop - your language and attitude do nothing but add fuel to the fire of the flawed thinking exhibited here and wherever else you see threads with the word 'black' in the title. I've been there buddy and it doesn't help win any arguments. But at least your heart is in the right place. Duendy he tells it like it is. best to listen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2005
  21. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    My course has no direct link to crime but I have devised a Theory called the "....... ..... ..... ...... ........" Its very much a social theory in the context of health. It’s an extremely adaptable theory I have so far also applied it to education (but only in Theory nothing in practice).

    I apologise if the term "black crime" was seen as a loaded title, it was not meant to be. But it is still the subject I have put forward for debate.

    You have all jumped to the conclusion that I am racist and that I believe black men are evil etc. This is not the case I believe it is VERY much a social issue not a genetic issue. Therefore it is solvable, but I do not see how it will ever be solved if people deny that it is a reality. Fact and figurers are proof that it happens (the figurers I quote are for the UK re the aftermath of the Macpherson report).

    I do not see criminals as bad or evil people (in general) I see them as people doing the best they can under the circumstances. A person I know did an armed robbery while we were out drinking with us one day. He left the pub went to the bookmakers robbed it then came back. He got 7 years for that and only £800 in cash. He did that robbery because he didn't real care much about himself. And it was one of the saddest things I have ever witnessed. If I had of known before hand what he was about to do I would have stopped him. I very much see criminals as victims especially after this event. He had a hard upbringing dad left home mum was a drinker, sister killed herself etc.

    So I am not saying lock up all black males to stop crime. I am saying, why do these people feel they have to take this route in life and how can we change it. My fear is that unless it is addressed as a problem then it will never be solved.

    And by the way I have a lot of experience of life in a shit hole I lived in East London most of my life and I am from a poor background. I was also uneducated until my 20's. My sister lived on Broadwater Farm for years, now that was bad, although its improved in resent years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  22. alexb123 The Amish web page is fast! Valued Senior Member

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    Sniffy of course there are other crime and social problems it’s just I have done this one post on this subject. It is not a reflection of its importance to me I have done many other posts here in the few days I have been a member. You divert away from the question at hand by bring up other issues. Yes they are also very important issues but they are not the issues at hand. I am also aware that books are available on many subjects but this is a forum for open discussion not a further reading conference.

    Maybe if people would stick to the subject we could all feel that we have learnt something from this Thread. Isn't learning from each other the reason most of us are here?

    Ok the topic is has been reworded for extra forum friendliness and now stand as……..

    A number of young black males go down the road to crime (as do whites but that’s another topic) why do these people from this section of society take this route? And what if anything could be done to make other more constructive life options available to them?
     
  23. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    By black violence I mean violence committed by blacks. So my question really meant, "So what can be done about violence committed by blacks?" I was simply restating the question Alex already made.

    How is it biological? Well sociological studies have shown that men doing time in prisons, tend to have higher than average levels of testosterone and lower than average IQs. These two factors are known to correlate a lot with violent behavior [intelligence and testosterone levels]. What's more, these two factors are hereditary. What's more, I've read in my psychology book a while back that a shitload of studies all shown that the average black person's IQ is 85, where for hispanics, it's about 92, and for whites, it's about 100. What's more, it's well-known and well-documented that blacks have higher than average levels of testosterone. It should also be noted that despite blacks being a minority in US, our prisons are overcrowded with them.

    What I find interesting is how important testosterone is in sports. Obviously, men who use steroids have a huge advantage over those who don't. On the other hand, people who don't have much testosterone, such as women, aren't nearly as good at sports as those with more testosterone.

    Perhaps testosterone may be why you tend to see a lot of blacks in professional sports, despite how relatively few blacks there are.

    Intelligence and testosterone levels = hereditary


    You mean South Africa is only the second most violent country in the world? Well, I guess that's not so bad. (sarcasm)

    Whites commit crimes. Of course they do. I do not see where the implication is that they don't. Maybe you could tell me. Nothing you said contradicts that blacks aren't more violent, however. Everyone keeps side-stepping that.

    Via poisoning? So it's not their style to murder with poison.

    We're talking about quantity of violence. Whites are generally less violent. Bouts of violent acts do not happen as much with whites.


    Trailor trash? Rednecks? I would say the situation for them isn't entirely different from blacks. It's a result of culture and biology. Biological predispositions exacerbated by culture.

    Is that really so hard to believe? Why do you blindly object to the notion that a person's biology can have a big part in how his life turns out? Whether or not they become educated.

    Maybe you could better explain how this 'shows the depth of my ignorance'. You're trying to make me a simple biggoted racist when you really don't know a thing about me. Tell me why this is so. All I have done here is acknowledge that there is a black violence problem and speculate as to what the underlying problem may be.

    All I care about in a person is whether they come off as a decent person and possess virtues that are generally regarded as good (Fairness, trustworthiness, good will, to name a few).
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2005

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