Black/Brown/Gay etc Pride = Good; White Pride = Racism

I agree with you Geoff but hey do you want only whitey accused of discrimination and the love of white skin?

And this shared culture means that every black person who exists in america today experience discrimination? :bugeye: What you write above though true doesn't follow through with your contention that all blacks have an experience of racism just because they share a history. But you seem to forget that blacks in the United States also come from the Caribbean and africa and they do not share this same history as african americans. Maybe you should realize there are ethnic categories. You are doing what Sam has done which is to try and simplify blacks and see them as one down-trodden monolith where the only thing that comes to mind when one refers to them is some demoralized black man standing in front of a fountain. You do it to the extent that you even deny them their different ethnicities. Shame on you.


Asians do consider themselves white and it is considered definitely better than being of a darker hue from their point of view. The following places a certain focus on Japan but its also true for most Asian countries. They would never consider themselves 'yellow':

"Highly prized as an accent to beauty in ancient times, whiter skin appearance has enjoyed a revival among women around the world. It’s more evident so in Japan where female consumers are known for their pain-taking effort to shun sunlight under parasols in summer. Even in her childhood, a Japanese woman spends a great deal of time tending to her young soft skin with a wide range and scope of basic beauty products found in any drugstore throughout the nation. And the legendary beauty of geishas depends on the whiteness and softness of the skin on the nape of their necks.

To possess ‘bihaku' (beautiful white) skin, the ideal porcelain-pale complexion, has been engrained in the Japanese culture for centuries. In the past, women used to scrub their skin with ‘nuka’ (rice hulls) for skin oxidization or grind pearls into powder for swallowing. Nowadays, consumers rely on scientists to play a major role in formulating increasingly sophisticated and safer products.

Although the myth that Asian women pursue white skin is to emulate the stereotypically Caucasian beauty, the original reason behind the obsession with the lighter skin has more to do with social class differences than ‘want what you don't have' syndrome. It was believed that a lighter complexion is associated with wealth and higher education levels, whereas darker skin alludes to a life of outdoor labor toiling in the sun.

However, over the years throughout Asia, white skin viewed as a symbol of innocence and femininity has transformed to an image of youthfulness and attractiveness to the opposite sex due to aggressively marketing by major cosmetic companies. Moreover, international film industries and advertisements clearly pushed the lighter-skinned celebrities and models as emblems of Asian beauty."



Where do you get the impression that they don't see themselves as white? I don't think their love of white skin racist as much as an obsessive aestheticism.

 

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White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Brown, Mexican, Yellow, Red, whatever the fuck you want to call yourself...racism and judgement exists for us all. We are all guilty and we are all victims.

Geoff, I agree with you. Why argue anymore? But can we move forward if we can't forget?

 

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the simple answer....
i shall see if i can muster one for you.
(yes yes you said discuss)

people are corrupt !

that is your answer plain and simple, just because they are black does not mean they are not or any less racist or corrupt than a white person but the vehicle has been used to provide a position of power which will not be given up easily.

i encounter far more black/dark skinned people who are racist than white/light skinned people who are racist, they seem to out number them 3 to 1.

now if you want to get into the psychology of it all im not sure that should be public knowledge.

 

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I agree with you. I also have had the same experiences as you, where I've encountered far more racism from Black people then I have White. People might say, "Well you're White, why would White ppl be racist to you?", but I'm talking in general. In MY experience (I put 'my experience' because obviously it doesn't state truth, but simply experience in itself) I have experienced much racism from ppl of multiple races, while I can't think of a single time I have been racist to another. I may have my own judgments, like all ppl of all colors, but I keep those judgements to myself. And, even as a White-skinned person, I have experienced racism from other White-skinned ppl. When I was in a bi-racial relationship, racism was rampant from both sides.

 

But there is a valid distinction to be made when the people being racist wield sufficient political and economic power to make their prejudices not merely insulting but to materially adversely impact another groups political and economic well being.

If many Blacks are prejudices against Whites, the economic impact of that may be no where near as great as the reverse. That is why many minorities define racism as not *just* prejudice on the basis of race, but prejudice plus power. (And I have known whites who hate tis definitio so much that they have labelled anyone who adheres to it racist, since it guarantees that only the dominant groups can even be "racist.")

Minority pride is seen as acceptable because the adverse impact foisted onto minorities in the past is still with us. It unbalanced the playing field and things were not immediately set back to level and fair once the civil rights movement took hold. Group cohesiveness is one way of trying to get the group as a whole into the rough position it would have been in but for past racism.

The big problem is that most people don't want a level playing field, they want to win, and that colors all of our perceptions. If minorities advance disproportionately fast relative to whites because of some policy of cultural norm that whites cannot avail themselves of, we don't especially care that the those minorities were at an inherent and unfair disadvantage to start with.

In essense. if the government or the culture in general gave minorities a ladder, we get jealous and want to know why we don't get a free ladder. If it is pointed out to us that, on average they start in a bit of hole and that we do not, we tend to thing the people who perceive a hole are crazy.

Minorities on the other hand, have the opposite problem, often overestimating the depth of the hole and expecting a longer free ladder that may be warranted.

 

This sums up perfectly the way I perceive racial relations in America. Absolutely perfect. It works both ways and everyone thinks they are either not getting enough or the other person is getting more. Despite everything else, what you say right here is the truth.

For me personally, I tend to agree and behave one way, while sometimes feeling another. Though I do feel, above all else, that minority groups, racial or otherwise, should make sure they have and are getting fair representation in culture and society. Then again, life isn't fair for anyone. But then yet again, who controls the 'fairness' in our society? If we subtract race from the factor, then we know that there is only a 'handful' of elites out of the entire population who control what we experience as a society and what we experience as 'fairness'. While White-skinned people tend to dominate the elite and powerful of America, that doesn't mean though that all White-skinned people have the same power. It's the displacement of blame and the expectation of fairness that bothers me, especially when race is eliminated and we realize we are all in the same boat, being rowed by the same people, being led by those we don't know and don't relate with, and fighting a war we are not sure even belongs to us.

In the end, race will always be a touchy subject, and at some point we will all experience racism. There is no one group to blame. Racism, slavery, sexism, and bigotry have been happening since the dawn of time. Once, slavery, sexism, and bigotry was the norm for anyone and everyone. Not only did the people who began civilization anywhere and everywhere (and carry it on) own slaves of all kinds, but their people were slaves as well when they were captured by enemies. In essence, there is no one culture, race, or ethnicity who hasn't been a victim and no one culture, race, or ethnicity who hasn't been a perpetrator. We are creatures of nature and nurture, but IMO, I think mostly nurture. What we are taught when we are young carries on with us or at least follows us, obviously it haunts us no matter what.

Cliche' as it sounds, once I had to write two poems for an anthology in Jr. High about what I felt about race and racism. This whole convo made me think of them and I found the poems. It's certainly interesting to read what I wrote at such a young age, but I think it fits what I was experiencing at the time as a young, white girl who moved from the city to super-suburbia. When I moved to suburbia it was like another planet. Everything was different and I was this strange creature who didn't belong despite being White-skinned, which suburbia is dominated by. Here are the poems if you are interested:

What is Shown

Mirror so perfect in your shining clarity
What do you really show?
Do you show the slashed bits of flesh left underneath my skin?
No, of course not, it glows so healthy
Do you show the bruises left so quietly within?
No, of course not, I portray the wealthy
White, light, rich and clean
A perfect dessert for any man's taste
Fight for spite, be cruel and mean
To see the unwraveling of my life to waste
Blonde and blue and pale you show
I don’t think you really see
Your glass it paints only what you know
No difference between status and me


Life in White

Life, in white is different
More then others see
Opportunities are supposed to be laid
And wills unchained and free
But beyond this condemning color
Beyond hellish, suburban rule
Behind such glittered lies
White in life is cruel
Never mind those castles
Mansions strung with gold
The sun doesn’t shine from all windows
And steadfast this ivory fold
Though shutout from angry ghettos,
Those holes so filled with hate,
Life in white isn’t all blind
Beyond what can relate
Pain is not beyond me
This person in this white
Nor is suffering and death
Beyond this whitened sight
Demons come and take me
Take our children too
Gold does not stop evil
From what the 'devil' do
Blood is often spilled
Yes, on this whitened ground
Between such spiteful cruelty
There is death where white is found
Beyond the rich façade
Of suburban 'paradise'
There’s a darkness lurking in
This white that’s held in ice
So eyes who do not see
That white is desperate too
There then can never be
A bridge between the two
So here we are still standing
Divided because of white
Seeming that all is given
In the other’s darkened sight
But if black and white should merge
To see eye to eye one day
Then happiness might be found
When black and white are gray

 

i just wish people would shut the hell up about their damn skin colour and stop being such whiney biatches.

but... people want to try and get leverage to be number one and they will use what ever they think they can get away with;
that is because they were hit as a child.
they have no self control and will push until they get a punch in the face.

i don't give a flying fuck what your stupid skin colour is or what your stupid ethnicity is.
if your not a freindly person who pursues non violence
then
your just another sheeple to me and you may as well be defined by your skin colour.

 

Protip: guy above me is racist.

 

Well lets put it this way Riple, if its not silly to be proud of ones sexuality (gay pride) then why is it silly to be proud of ones skin color?

 

why ?

because ! thats why.
the dice is already loaded in peoples minds from birth.
a racist is not created by a lightning strike.
they are bread and nurtured by their parents and community.

there are vastly more racists than there are gay people.
and... being proud of something you have no ability to change is a fake precept to bolster ones own ego just like women say "oh i didnt like him anyway" etc etc ...
or men when they say "oh yeah i fucked her already" (when they didnt).

its all bullshit.

if you want to be known for your skin colour then your a racist

why is it that the word nigger can be used in songs on tv but the word slut cant ?

answer me that !

 

I think we should take the word 'pride' with a grain of salt.

If you have been told you are piece of shit for being a certain thing, it can be really quite healthy to speak about pride in the adjustment period. Often what people really mean by pride is absence of self-hate. If you've never been made to feel bad for whatever you are, I don't think pride is something equivalent to say, anger, or some other feeling. You just don't feel bad or on the defensive about it.

 

true.
we should no longer allow blacks to call us "cracker," "honky," or "whiteboy."
those are OUR WORDS!!!

 

and who hasnt?

 

Here's me trying to leave the forumses behind and then I come across a thread like this and, well, I just can't help myself!

One drop of blood this; yellow blood that; culture this; race that; faith t'other, nationality poondawg!

If I was brought up in the forest by a pack of wild wolves what would I be proud of?

Howling.



If YOU didn't invent the fire, or the needle, or the axe or the wheel....what the hell have you got to be proud of?


Think about that for a while people, after all you are human.......

For now, I'm howling.

 

And what would the wolves be proud of?
Think about that for a while.

 

Are you making a point?

 

Doreen;
eloquently put.

Sniffy ... SPOT ON !
the very concept being instilled is one of inadequacy by its very nature of negative reinforcement.

 

Are you whatever people say you are? Or are you whatever you say you are? Or do you let you your actions speak for you?

Mr MinM over to you:

Whatever
Dre just let it run
Ay yo turn the beat up a little bit
Ay yo, this song is for anyone
Fuck it just shut up and listen

Ay yo
I sit back with this pack of zigzags
And this bag of this weed
It gives me the shit needed to be
The most meanest emcee on this - on this earth
Cause since birth I've been cursed with this curse to just cursed
And just blurt this bezerk and bizarre shit that works
And it sells and it helps in its self
To relieve all this tension dispensing me
Sentence is getting it, stress has been eating me recently
All through this chest and I rest to get peacefully
But at least have the decency in you to leave me alone
When you freaks see me out in the streets when I'm eating or feedin' my daughter
To not come and speak to me
I don't know you and no I don't owe you a motherfuckin thing
I'm not Mr. NSYNC and I'm not what your friends think
I'm not Mr. Friendly
I can be a prick, if you tip me my tank is on empty
No patience is in me and if you offend me I'm lifting you ten feet
In the air, I don't care who was there and who saw me just jaw you
Go call you a lawyer file you a lawsuit
I'll smile in the courtroom and buy you a wardrobe
I'm tired of arguing - I don't mean to mean but it's all I can be
It's just me

And I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam

Cause I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am

Sometimes I just feel like my father, I hate to be bothered
With all of this nonsense it's constant
And "oh it's just lyrical content!"
The song "Guilty Conscience" has gotten such rotten responses
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a fuck
When you won't just put up with the bullshit they pull
Cause they full of shit too
When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up your school
And they blame it on Marilyn - and the heroin
Where were the parents at?
And look at where it's at middle America
Now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see
An upper class city having this happening
Then attack Eminem cause I rap this way
But I'm glad cause they feed me the fuel
That I need for the fire to burn and it's burnin' and I have returned

And I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam

Cause I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am

I'm so sick and tired of being admired
That I wish that I would just die or get fired
And drop from my label and stop with the fables
I'm not gonna be able to top what my name is
And pigeon holdin' to some poppy sensations
They cop me rotation at Rock 'N' Roll stations
And I just do not have the patience
To deal with this cocky Caucasians
Who think I'm some wigga who just tries to be black
Cause I talk with an accent and grab on my balls
So they always keep asking the same fucking questions
What school did I go to?
What hood I grew up in?
The why? The who, what?
When and where and the how?
Till I'm grabbing my hair and I'm tearing it out
You've been driving me crazy, I can't take it
I'm racing, I'm pacing, I stand and I sit
And I'm thankful for every fan that I get
But I can't take a shit in the bathroom
Without someone standing by it
No I won't sign your autograph
You can call me an asshole
I'm glad cause

And I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam

Cause I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL_8SKZhhMg

 

Yes, but you haven't thought about, have you?

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Wolf howling:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mEVsmeDknA