Black/Brown/Gay etc Pride = Good; White Pride = Racism

Um...are you serious? :bugeye:

WTF does that have to do with anything?

 

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Its the Return of The 'nerb

 

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I assume that's a bad thing

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Its a 'banned' thing

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I hear bitching on conservative talk radio about whites not being treated fairly or not being allowed to be proud of being white but nobody ever gives examples.

Nobody even notices when people talk proudly about the founding fathers of the USA or Talk proudly about Shakespeare or Beethoven, or Einstein or Elvis Presley and this is not considered White Pride. The Mayflower society that celebrates descendancy from the Mayflower pilgrims is never talked about as White Pride. The big fuss over sending men to the moon is not talked about as White pride because we live in a White culture and so rather than being White pride all this is just our cultural pride and Blacks and Mexican are encouraged to to share in our cultural pride as Americans despite the overwhelming whiteness of this shared culture.

I never realized how much there was a little touch of black culture in American Whites like myself until I visited Germany and noticed the lack of that African touch. Germans may be absorbing Turkish and Kurdish traits into their culture now but in my opinion something subtle of the rhythm of being an American comes from the blacks even for pasty white geek Americans.

The reason American Whites are never noticed having White Pride is because American White pride is too hard to distinguish from American Pride.

Americans can be pro-American without being anti-anybody. But the only way to be noticed having White pride as opposed to American pride is to be against somebody who is not white.

Find me an example of somebody getting criticized for having White pride. It never happens. Whites only get criticized for being racists when they claim white superiority or non-white inferiority. Blacks also don't get a pass from American culture when they claim Whites are bad. The whole stink about Reverend Wright was because Reverend Wright claimed whites behaved badly. The media made a huge fuss about him being a racist.

This whole "poor pitiful whites" bit and the claim that there is a double standard in which minorities get to be proud or even racists but whites are not allowed to be proud or racists is a fraud. It is just political BS designed to take advantage of the left over divisions in the USA for political purposes. The Goal is for the Republicans to be "US" and for the liberals and foreigners and blacks and weirdo's to be "them". "Us versus Them" hostility is hardwired as a tendency in all social species of mammals and it can be used by anybody to turn a situation to their advantage.

 

Because they're not being praised for being white, their being praised for their accomplishments. What about Malcolm X or Martin Luther King Jr. or Michael Jordan or Booker T. Washington? When people talk about them is that Black pride? Or, again, are they simply praising their accomplishments?

I think that is the point that the OP is trying to make; discussing Einstein isn't seen as White-pride, but discussing Martin Luther King Jr. is seen by many as Balck pride. Why is that? Both were intelligent individuals who changed the world, but why should race matter?

That's a generalization. Your trying to say that all Whites are the same, with the same culture, and that is simply not true. There are plenty of 'White' people in America who don't consider themselves to be 'American'.

I think that was the point of the OP. He is questioning why that is the case.

That's because most White people who are not racist are too afraid to even utter the words 'White-Pride' for fear of being labeled a racist. There is this little thing called 'White-guilt' and it's unfortunate that because my skin color matches someone elses people assume then I must have had slave-owning ancestors who oppressed others, which is also very untrue.

What White people behaved badly? The White people who oppressed Black people and other people with different colored skin? Or is not racist to lump all 'Whites' into one category and place blame on them as if they are one ethnicity only?

Not only do I not believe that, but I'm sure you will find plenty of people, White or otherwise, who would also disagree with that.

 

Praise of MLK, Malcolm and MJ could be either simply praising their accomplishments or Black Pride. When I praise them, being white it has nothing to do with Black Pride.

There would be no need for black history month or "Black Pride" if there was not concern about the damage done by blacks feeling inferior. Would James Brown have been able to sell "say it loud, i'm black and i'm proud" If there was not a need to assert this to counteract humiliation?

It will be great when Black Pride is just another ethnic pride like Italian Pride and Irish pride. Actually, the Italians and Irish also were humiliated by racism directed at them when they arrived so I can't say that healing a wounded ego plays no role in their ethnic pride.

MLK dealt with racial issues. That made him a "black" figure. Blacks needed Black pride to counteract Black shame.

Poor White Southerners may need White Pride to counteract the way wealthier educated Northern and West Coast Whites look down on them. Despite being from the areas that looks down on poor White NASCAR loving southerners I didn't mind hearing about how the South will rise again or Leonard Skynard's White Southern Pride and rebuke to the condescending Liberal White North in the Sweet Home Alabama line "I hope Neil Young will remember, A Southern man don't need him around anyhow!"

Anything that the White Americans who feel looked down on want to do to heal their pain is fine with me as long as they don't start scapegoating black or anybody else as a means of coping with the educated coastal whites looking down on them.

Who would not consider themselves to be an American? A non-citizen? Somebody who did not grow up in American culture? South Carolina and Maine and Los Angeles have different cultures but they are all part of American culture.

There are cultural differences between Whites and Blacks and Mexican Americans and Vietnamese Americans but growing up in the USA makes us all share a lot culturally.

How would you imagine a White person expressing White pride in a way that does not put anybody down and is not ethnic like Irish Pride or regional like Southern Pride or Religious like Born Again Christian pride? If you can't imagine how to celebrate White Pride then Minorities and Liberals should not be blamed for repressing White Pride.

The only thing that Minorities and Liberals and social deviants have tried to repress is attempts to humiliate and intimidate minorities and liberals social deviants by people claiming to be superior.

How could people express White pride. If a bunch of white people started singing "say it loud, I am White and I am proud" that might scare blacks and make them feel like they are at a Klan rally but nobody is forbidding whites from that sort of behavior. Whites just are not interested in that sort of behavior. It's boring for Whites because their is no White shame of inferiority that needs to be healed.

The White shame that does need healing is this taking on of the guilt of the slave owners, and Indian killers. What happened happened. There is no need to repress the knowledge of what happened. There is a legacy of denial and a resentment that the nasty issues keeps being brought up. If a husband gets drunk once, beats his wife gets taken to jail, gets out, come home but never apologizes; then the wife brings up the beating over and over and so does the daughter, and the son who never did anything starts to feel unfairly blamed for the beating; should the son get angry at his sister the daughter for bringing up the beating that the father never apologized for? I see the people claiming that they are not allowed to have White pride as being like the son getting made at the sister for bring up the beating of the mother that the father never apologized for. The family needs therapy or in the USA's case needs 100 more years of time passage.

Who would you say "white pride" to in what context? I don't think all White people are afraid to say White Pride. I am not. The problem is that once the fear of saying "White Pride" is gone it becomes pointless and boring to say "White Pride".

For some Bizarre reason that I don't understand I got all obsessed a few years back with my ancestors and did a big genealogy and their is some sort of pride (or instincts for ancestor worship) involved with that. I found out two of my ancestors did own slaves in the North and a bunch of my ancestors participated in genocide and enslavement of native Americans in king Phillips War. I am at peace with the history.

My father was a racist. The first person to ever hit me who's name I did not know was black. The only person to ever stick a knife to my throat was black. I could have chosen to not like blacks but I didn't. I know I am not 100% clean of racism towards blacks and I have a whole grab bag of negative judgements about different kinds of people but I can see most of my crap and I am not afraid of it.

Maybe you are afraid that you are a racist when basically your not. It would be difficult to grow up in the USA and have no trace of emotional issues around race but the whole racial situation is getting better and healing faster than I ever thought it would.

 

Your misreading my point. You think that I'm stereotyping white people in the image of their ancestors. No. I am arguing that white culture is reality, and is a reminder to migrants of what they have lost. Hence, it can gain negative connotations.

White culture includes pride in their history, and some aspects of that history ARE racist, and imperialist. Taking pride in those aspects, as seen by the rallies that have cropped up so far, is racist. To deny it and glaze over it, is to demean those cultures that were crushed by white culture.

I'm arguing that from the migrants point of view, This is how I perceive them to feel. Like it or not, White culture is reality. Not "Known". Reality. The migrants have to adapt to White culture. It's a good thing that they can be reminded of their own cultures for once in a while

 

I think that you are assuming we come from two very different standpoints when actually we are just not making ourselves clear. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Of course there is a need for Black people to counteract humiliation with Black Pride and I have no problem with that whatsoever. And you're right, the Irish were humiliated and treated like dogs when they came to this country, I know this because my great grandmother was one of them. But I do think you are making a large assumption when you say no wounds need to be healed when it comes to ethnic pride. Ethnicity is the source of everything. Race is what we lump people into so that we can define and judge them easier

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Understandable, but that doesn't mean he should only be defined for his pride in his "blackness". Other races respect and honor him as well, but that doesn't mean they are thinking "Black Pride" when they do so.

It seems that you have quite a bias. What's with all the references to "the geeky white Americans" and the "poor white southerners"? The problem with White Pride is that it simply screams 'racism!' because of the KKK, but there is nothing wrong with being proud of your skin color, white or black.

I don't think it's about scapegoating for anyone. Yes, people with white skin ensalved African Americans and killed the Native Americans, but that doesn't mean that all people with white skin had any part in that awful time. White American people, from all different cultural and ethnic backgrounds, have carried the guilt of slavery on their backs for as long as I can remember, even when their ancestors were never in the country at the time, never took part in such terrible acts, and even when they are guiltless simply because they never did such things or were even alive during the time it happened. Racial issues will always be there and scapegoating goes both ways. It's not sensical for a Black American who is 20 years old as of today to blame a White American who is 20 years old as of today for slavery or racism. The past hurts, but it can be healed if we move forward together, rather then pointing fingers and blaming each other.

Many people, White people included, want to take pride in their ethnicity and their culture. Even while living in America, many people do not consider themselves 'American', instead they prefer to claim the heritage of where they originally came from. That doesn't make them less American in the eyes of society, but to say that everyone is proud to be an American is a generalization. It also doesn't mean that every White person thinks that to be American you have to be White.

You are trying to distinguish ethnic pride from racial pride when for certain people there is no difference. For many White Americans, their ethnic pride has no value to them because they've been told their whole lives that 'to be an American if the best they can be' and that is all they are. Not to mention that racism is their fault. And slavery. And that to be White is something to be ashamed of because white ppl have such a negative history. For White people it is much harder to distinguish ethnic pride from racial pride without coming off as a racist. If I were to walk down the street with a shirt that read 'White Pride' ppl would assume I was a racist. It's the assumption that all White Americans are to blame for racism that is wrong. Why should I not be proud to be who I am? Why does White Pride = Racism? At the University they gave me a convenient term: Reverse-Racism. Not Racism. Reverse-Racism. As if racism began with White people. That is just a bunch of bullshit.

And they should. No one should suffer oppression. NO ONE.

Another generalization. Many White people are proud to be White, but feel afraid to express it for fear that they will be labeled racists. You should have seen some of my classes in college. Half the time, White people wouldn't even speak for fear that if they said the smallest thing in defense of the White race the rest of the class would attack them. Racism is prevalent, it is real, and it happens to EVERYONE. And to say that there is no White pain to be healed is very presumptive. As I've mentioned before, White Americans have carried the burden of slavery on their backs whether they were ever involved or knew anyone involved or not.

I'm not sure who I would say it to. I've been told my whole life not to declare it, so I guess I've never thought about when it would be appropriate to shout "White Pride!", like other races shout "Black pride" or "Latino Pride" ect.

*Sigh*. No. I am not afraid I am a racist. I wasn't going to bother responding to the first part of your post because I knew we had gotten down to the meat of the convo by the time I read your last paragraph.

Once again, you are generalizing. Why, as a White American, would I have "no trace of emotional issues around race"? That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. As a White American I am constantly reminded of racial issues, not to mention suffer through them on a daily basis, as well as blamed for them. It's super awesome

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. So a Black person held a knife to your throat? So what? Why would that turn you into a racist? A White person could do the same thing, would you then hate white ppl?

When I was in high school I changed oil for 4 years. I worked with all different types of people; convicts, felons, hookers, pimps, college students, drop-outs, blacks, whites, asians, hispanics...it goes on....but I will tell you this, I have never been racist EVER to anyone, but when I changed oil (working mostly with men) I have never experienced so much racism in my life for being White. The Black men hated me and if they didn't hate me for being White they hated me because I was a woman changing oil and telling them what to do. To them I was the devil. For me, I was just doing my job, 15 years old, running an oil shop and trying to keep my head down to avoid the racism and sexism lest I lose my temper and beat the shit out of someone.

When I dated a man who was half-black, I experienced racism and bigotry like never before. It was astonishing to me how close-minded ppl still were about bi-racial relationships and this was fucking 2002! Not to mention the shit I got from some of my white friends. And my boyfriends black friends hated me. It was awful.

So, once again, I am not a racist, nor am I afraid that I am. I'm proud to be white. I'm proud to be fucking Irish with the same eyes as my mother, my aunt, my cousin, and my grandmother and my pale-ass white skin. I'm proud to be Norwegian with my barbaric heritage

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I will end this ridiculously long post with a story:

The first time I was made aware that there was something wrong with being White was when I was 4 years old. I was a shy child at a young age. One day, I ended up in an elevator. It was my mother and me (both White as can be), along with a Black mother and her child about my age. The little Black girl, being friendly and not shy at all, approached me and said "hello, what's your name?" Being shy, I smiled, but cowered behind my mother's legs. Then it happened. The Black girls mother pulled her aside, glaring at me, and in an angry voice told her daughter of 4 years old, "Don't speak to her. She's White. When they don't speak to you that means they think they're better then you". I remember feeling instant shock and humilation. It was at that moment that I learned what it meant to be White and what it meant to be Black. I will never forget that moment. It's as clear as if it were yesterday. I remember the pain. Not knowing what to do or say. I knew that I must have done something bad. The little Black girl looked confused and I was left feeling shocked into silence. What could I say to make up for what I had done unintentionally? How could I change by skin color and why was I bad? My tongue was glued to the roof of my mouth. My mother, shocked and appalled and embarrassed for being White, apologized profusely, trying to explain that I was just shy and meant no offense. I remember the Black woman leaving the elevator with her little girl in tow, treating us as if we were the plauge, and not even acknowledging my mother's apologies for something so innocent as a child's shyness.

If you think racism doesn't exist for Whites then you are living in different world then me. Racism hurts everyone, but yet it is perpetrated by peoples of all colors. Racism cannot be pinned on one race alone. Like you said, scapegoating solves nothing.

 

Don't try to respond to everything Jessie. I am writing too much.

I did not know where you were coming from. I did not read most of this thread. We are not that far apart; we mostly seem to agree.

Where we don't agree is that I have always been suspicious that people saying some form of that that whites in the USA are being repressed or discriminated against don't know what they are talking about and or are in some way dupes of conservatives or racists or themselves racist or conservative partisans. I think everything that Limbaugh and his followers utter is usually poorly thought out, intellectually dishonest and mean spirited and all statements starting with "it is unfair that Whites are not allowed to ___________________(fill in the blank) sound on the surface like mindless, self-deceptive mean Limbaughisms to me.

I was curious whether MZ or anybody could defend any form of those sort of statements.

You have made as good a case for whites being legitimately repressed in what they are free to express has I have heard. I still believe that most complaints about whites being repressed in what they are free to express are BS because I never felt repressed.

Maybe I did not feel repressed because I never wanted to reject the ugly parts of US history or because I never felt like I was being asked to take on personal blame for the ugly parts of US history. Blacks to horrible things to blacks and whites do horrible things to whites and Asians to horrible things to Asians so racial guilt did not make much sense to me. But my early years were spent in a very white suburb that was participating in blaming other whites for racism and was indoctrinating me in school with pride and identification with Northern white abolitionists through a narrative that made Southern whites the bad guys and pretended that racism was not also a northern problem.

I think my upstairs neighbor hates me because I am white. I wish racism was over because I see it hurting everybody. Unfortunately I think racism is part of human nature. You can study any nation at any point in history and you will probably find racism there.

I never said that ethnic pride can not also be about healing shame. I just am open to the possibility that ancestral pride could exist without any connection to healing shame and without any connection to the issues of who is inferior or superior or who is "Us and who is Them".

Just labels, doesn't mean much. I am interested in testing the idea that much of the conservative coalition has evolved out of Southern trauma from losing the civil war. But there is another issue of cultural conservatives believing tradition and discipline as opposed to cultural liberals believing in kindness and economic conservatives believing efficiency.

I am a basically a white geek from a white geek subculture despite my having ventured out of traditional safe zones for geeks. A bunch of people here at sciforums who criticize theists remind me of my atheist geek MIT grad dad who was proud of his logic and atheism to the point of being rude to people at times. But my dad had gaping blind spots to which he would not apply the logic that he was so proud of. The pride and disdain with which some people proclaim the truth of what they think is Empiricism but which is actually not so logical physicalism reminds me vaguely of racism but reminds me more of my dad and his pride. I think if a person is going act superior based on their belief that they are more logical than they know were logic leads if you follow logic as far as you can go with it and they should know what is and is not logic and not mistake the culture of physicalism for logic. It was this debate in the philosophy section that recently got me writing about geekyness as a subculture.

Agreed.

Who says that "all people with white skin had any part in that awful time"? Who is making you and others feel blamed and oppressed and how did I avoid feeling that way if your experience is the normal white experience in the USA?

Maybe I would understand the anger at political correctness if I understood the guilt. Why are you carrying the guilt and I am not when we both are White?

For me I have some intellectual ideas about redress and justice and what should be done now but these are just coming from my intellect and my sense of ethics. My sense of ethics does hook into my emotions but I don't think I have racial guilt.

Philosophically I feel that new immigrants to America should help bear the burden of doing whatever is necessary to help blacks heal from the legacy of their experience in America. If affirmative action works then affirmative action should be policy and the new immigrants should not be jealous of blacks getting special help if the government choses to give blacks any special help. Really the "special help" is overrated by Limbaugh's audience and affirmative action as it is is not much help. Blacks don't want to hear that they are damaged and many blacks are not damaged but I have lived in some messed up predominantly black areas and I have seen that the damage from the past is not over until black parents don't pass more dysfunction down to their children than White and Asian parents pass to their children.

When you buy a corporation you get it's debts and it's assets. Immigrants should understand that when they move to the USA get the benefits and obligations of America. But America's debt to the blacks in the nations debt. This debt is not the personal responsibility of any individual Whites. This debt is the collective responsibility of every citizen of the USA and owing this debt should be no more shameful than owing a debt because you bought a corporation that was found guilty in court of poisoning people with toxic waste prior to your purchase of the corporation.

Why does my upstairs black neighbor hate me because I am White if I am correct about him hating me because I am White. I don't think he hates me because of what he thinks my ancestors did. If he hates me (and I feel that he does hate me but his black girlfriend doesn't hate me) then my feeling is that he hates me because of what he thinks that I feel about blacks and him.

Another black neighbor in my condo complex told me that he knows which whites in our building hate blacks and which Whites don't hate blacks and he won't speak to the whites who hate blacks. This crap is very sad when I have to be aware of it but it is mostly about what we think each others attitudes are now and it is not as much about people saying and doing cruel things to express racism.

This sounds a bit like the conservative radio accusations against the Mexican immigrants. Please don't believe the conservative talkers. These Mexicans immigrants even if illegal immigrants are not much different in attitude towards America than the previous European immigrants were.

I don't remember meeting people who were citizens of the USA who did not consider themselves 'American', instead they prefer to claim the heritage of where they originally came from. I have met people who are very attached to where they came from but unless they thought they would return to live where they came from they did consider themselves Americans.

I knew Indian computer programmers on H1b visa's who don't think their Americans but they are not Americans they are guest workers who theoretically will be returning to India eventually.

I have know some hard core lefties who are so disgusted with cruelty that they associate with America and American patriotism that they have sort of renounced their American identity but these people were thoroughly American and had no other ethnicity other than generic white American. Of course not everybody thinks you have to be white to be American.

What would white pride be? American women's magazine cover models are usually white, is that white pride? I just can't think of how to be white. I know I am white but how could I go about acting proud of being white?

I can't say that all American blacks are interested in their blackness even though it may be harder for them to forget about there blackness in America than it is for me to forget about my whiteness.

I may have instincts to be interested in history and ancestry but somebody else may not have those instincts. Attitudes towards ones ancestry my be inherited like the tendency towards shyness.

Who would be told to just be American and give up ethnic pride? Recent immigrants? My experience may be so different from you and others. nobody cared whether I did or did not have ethnic pride or whether I did or did not have white pride. It was all up to me and I am not aware of anybody trying to influence me.

When a person is descended from a bunch of different nations that might diminish their ethnic pride because how do you choose which ethnicity to be proud of.

Nobody tried to push that attitude on me. I have wanted the inclusion of negative history in the telling of American history simply because I like accuracy.

I think the negative history reflects on humans not on whiteness. Dogs are often cruel to other dogs and we don't judge dogs. Angels are an Ideal of virtue and understanding. The sooner that humans accept that humans are something in between dogs and angels the sooner we can start improving our solutions for correcting bad human behavior.

The past is the past, why would anybody feel guilty about the past when the only use that remembering the past has is to learn from the past. This is as true about problems within families as it is about problems between races.

Yes it would be hard. The White Pride Tshirt that would be misinterpreted as being racist and anti-minority due to American history. Other than wearing a white pride Tshirt or singing White pride songs how do you have white pride?

Can we go to the white food restaurant and eat some white food? Let's take are kids to the White museum. What could you put in the White museum? What is White culture? How can we celebrate white culture if there is no such thing as white culture?

Who is making this assumption? I don't feel that way.

Be proud of who you are. I don't see anything wrong in that.

Racism is racism. Go tell them to be logical. If somebody wants to say White racism was different because Whites had more power recently then they should say whites had more power and not try to say that racism without power is not racism.

But, "Affirmative Action" is not reverse racism. Affirmative action may be reverse discrimination but it is not reverse racism. Racism is racism and the term "reverse racism" is not a useful term.

If anybody tells you racism began with White people tell them to learn world history. Tell them to learn about the Japanese attitudes towards the Ainu.

Afraid to express what exactly? How would one express white pride?

What sort of statements would get a person in trouble? Are you saying anything a white person says can and will be used against them and twisted into them being racists?

Anything a minority person says also be twisted into them being however that minority is disparaged but that probably would be done in private or on conservative talk radio.

Ok, whites hurt too.

Your average person of other races don't shout black pride or latino pride very often.

Before people get bitter and start blaming other people about them not being allowed to express themselves I think the people should figure out what it is that they are not allowed to express and be sure that they know who would punish them in which way if they did express themselves.

Sorry. I do believe you.

That is not what I meant. I must have written poorly.

I get it. Racism is bad and has hurt you and hurts whites as well as minorities.

I hope racism ends some generation.

I have no problem with that.

It is an interesting story. It is another example of the problem being in what people think that the other people are thinking.

The Black mother passed down to you and her daughter the legacy of American racism because what she learned to believe about what white people believe is a cancer poisoning America.

I don't that think racism doesn't exist for Whites and I never intended to say that.

I am just wary of people unconsciously repeating ideas that come from the cultural conservative movement because I think cultural conservatism contains an energy to increase "Us-Them thinking" and therefore to increase racism. I think "Us-Them thinking" is a force within humans that can create all kinds of problems if not consciously resisted because "Us Them" thinking is an instinctual mechanism designed to create cultural and genetic diversity by using antagonism to separate groups of individuals from each other. There is a Darwinistic benefit to diversity because a culturally and genetically diverse species would be more capable of surviving environmental changes. But screw diversity because racism and war is to high an emotional price to pay for diversity and now that we have nuclear weapons war becomes a greater threat to the environment and the survival of the human species than lack of diversity ever was.

Anyway, I don't think you are a racist but I still am not sure that I understand why you feel that people are repressing your right to have White Pride.

 

I understand about negative connotations, being black or jewish can have negative connotations but it does not prevent pride. You seem to only focus on the aspects of the history that are racist to the exclusion of everything else including whites who fought against slavery, imperialism and racism. No one has attempted to 'glaze' over it and its unfair and untrue for you to imply there is a present day attempt to do so. When you say 'white culture which culture are you referring to? American perhaps? Because african-american culture is presently mainstream and african-american achievement is part and parcel of that culture. It is only a race minded person or a continuation of a racist paradigm that would make it otherwise. james Baldwin is an american writer not just a black writer. Sidney Poitier as an actor and his films are celebrated as american classics and have their day along with Cary Grant and other greats on the Turner Channel, they don't make a special day for him titled 'black actor day'.

Do you think that the Italians or the Chinese or poles were 'welcomed' as new immigrants in US history? They are all white and suffered from discrimination:

"Anti-Italianism is a hostility toward Italian people and Italian culture. It uses stereotypes about Italian people, a popular one being that most Italians are naturally violent, or somehow associated with the Mafia. Like most racist and biased sentiments, anti-Italianism often uses discrimination, prejudice, and even violence."

"After the American Civil War, some poor Italian immigrants were recruited to fill the place of abolished slave labor by working on Southern plantations, while Italians in the North often worked in sweat shops and factories. The Italian American's role as a hard laborer has contributed to many stereotypes that persist today. Some Americans saw the swarthy, darker skinned Italians as a “missing link” between whites and blacks.[citation needed] In some areas of the South, as well as the North, Italians were “semi-segregated”. Many native Americans viewed Italian immigrants as lowlife criminals and undesirables swarming into North America. In 1921, Congress passed a nationality-based quota which limited the number of aliens, including Italians, that were allowed to immigrate to the United States annually. The quota was not repealed until 1965."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Italianism

Anti-Polishness in America:

"An inflow and outflow of prejudice has coloured much of Polonia's life. Since they first settled in American, Polish Americans have been aware of the prejudice of non-polish Americans towards them. Prejudice against immigrants has a long history in America; Benjamin Franklin stated that although the country needed the Scots, Irish and Germans, he was worried about having so many of them and about their behaviour." Forgetting that they had been the object of prejudice, or perhaps still reacting to it, the descendants of groups who were now considered to be 'old immigrants' expressed strong negative attitudes towards the 'new immigration' from southern and eastern Europe."

http://books.google.com/books?id=F8...esult&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

The Chinese:

Passed in 1882, the Chinese Exclusion Act was a climax to more than thirty years of progressive racism. Anti-Chinese sentiment had existed ever since the great migration from China during the gold rush, where white miners and prospectors imposed taxes and laws to inhibit the Chinese from success. Racial tensions increased as more and more Chinese emigrated, occupied jobs, and created competition on the job market. By 1882 the Chinese were hated enough to be banned from immigrating; the Chinese Exclusion Act, initially only a ten year policy, was extended indefinitely, and made permanent in 1902. The Chinese resented the idea that they were being discriminated against, but for the most part they remained quiet. In 1943, China was an important ally of the United States against Japan, so the Chinese Exclusion Act was repealed; however, a lasting impact remained. The act was both cause and effect: it came from decades of Chinese discrimination, and initiated decades of Chinese exclusion."

"The Chinese resented the fact that they were being discriminated against, yet they continued to immigrate to the United States because they felt their opportunities in the United States were still better than in China."

http://sun.menloschool.org/~mbrody/ushistory/angel/exclusion_act/



The fact is that many new immigrants had their share of trouble while trying to make it in the United States and it didn't matter that some of these who experienced discrimination were actually white. Today Blacks, hispanics, jews, poles, chinese, Irish and Italians are all accepted as part of the fabric of american life, now its the mexicans who are suffering from discrimination but trust me this is and will change for them too. Then they can join the others in turning against whatever new guy comes along to get the short end of the stick.

 

Blacks still suffer from serious discrimination, and it has never had anything to do with their being "new immigrants".

 

hmmm

I think it is a case of intention as well as perception.

But racism should never be allowed.

 

And I know a lot blacks who have never in their lives experienced discrimination. Perhaps economics have something to do with it maybe they just live under a lucky cloud. The fact that there are still 'racists' doesn't mean that you have to tag it on the back of all whites which would make you guilty of stereotyping all whites.


We don't say Asians are racist do we? And yet if you go to South Korea you would find a socially and culturally imbedded racism towards anyone who is not part of their tribe. Have you ever been to Korea?

Kim Rahn, Korea Times (Seoul), May 20

"In Korea, where everybody has black eyes, straight black hair and yellow skin, biracial Koreans face discrimination because of their appearance—they look different.

Moreover, they are treated differently, with indirect words and in indirect ways, people are reluctant to accept them as members of our society, only because they are biracial.

With an increasing number of Koreans marrying non-Koreans, the number of biracial people is growing. But the inhospitality and discrimination against their children have not changed with the times, and Korea is still a country where biracial people face difficulties.

There are no statistics indicating the exact number of biracial people in Korea. But a figure can be estimated from the number of people registered with the nation’s only biracial welfare agency, Pearl S. Buck International (PSBI), a foundation established by the Nobel laureate to assist children suffering racial discrimination."

"Feelings of envy toward biracial people are quite rare. And they are usually children born in nurturing families, with a father and mother where one of the parents is white. Those born from a black parent, or those living in a single parent home face many more problems, even outright hatred,” Lee Ji-young, a PSBI staff said.

The main reason for the discrimination they face is that they do not look “Korean.” Korea has long been a racially homogeneous nation."

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/05/biracial_people.php

I mean its so bad they have to make laws now. Does this sound familiar?

Korea to Enact Law against Biracial Prejudice
The Korea Herald, Posted: Aug 01, 2006

"SEOUL — The South Korean government plans to amend laws to help eliminate discrimination against mixed race people, reports the Korea Herald In Korea. A largely single-race society, biracial Koreans are victims of discrimination and prejudice in their everyday lives. Biracial children in Korea tend to underperform in school, and have a higher dropout rate than other students due to poverty and discrimination from their peers. In a 2002 survey, about 30 percent of 184 mixed-race children had dropped out before completing junior high school, according to Pearl S. Buck International, a group founded in 1964 to assist biracial people. Teachers and staff will help biracial kids socialize with their peers, and provide after-school classes and tutoring. The government is also considering setting a quota for biracial Koreans as it recruits migrant workers. As of 2003, about 35,000 of Korea's population of 48 million were mixed race. About 30,000 of them have blood ties to other Asian countries and the rest to the United States."

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=8494a2586073b1bce7372015178968e9



Now is it fair for me to label Koreans as discriminating racist and do so for as long as there are Koreans? Of course not you would find that absurd and yet you would find more progressive liberal whites than you would Koreans on the issue of race. What a hypocrisy it is to tag it on whites alone as if they were the first and last racists. White people of course being the mother's of all racists.

Ever see how the Japanese commercial by the telecommunications company Emobile poked fun at Obama during the elections?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si-lSLv9b4E

But of course whites are the only ones guilty of prejudice & discrimination.

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Not in the US, you don't.

Who's "we"? In my circle of sayers it's common knowledge that Japan is one of the most racist societies on earth, for example - the Japanese discuss it, it's a topic during the analysis of things like the expansion of Japanese manufacturing into the US, and so forth.

And everyone knows the spics and blacks don't necessarily get along all that well, in the US.

Who is it that you claim is saying whites are the only bigots on earth?

 

Ah yes I do Iceaura. You behave as if african americans have a singular experience.

And concerning the Koreans and the Japanese would it be fair to rate them as all rabid haters and racists? Afterall we wouldn't find it off putting if they spoke of their heritage with pride. Also I have met some incredible and open Japanese people who were not in the least bit racist, moreover I know of african americans who live there and prefer it to the States, blacks in Japan don't fear being attacked because they are black for example. My point being that if you are looking at people then you will find a human story, if you look only at one aspect of a people and say that this alone expresses who they all are then you fall into the trap of racism and discrimination, even in the attempt to reverse said discrimination. The goal is for people to deal with each other as individuals is it not?

Discrimination of all kinds are part of the story of mankind in the broadest sense. No one group is racist above and beyond any other group since we can find examples of it in each group.

 

No, you don't. Pay better attention, such as to stuff like this:

Of course not. Or the Irish and Swedes, either.

The Koreans don't confuse their heritage with the Japanese. It isn't "yellow pride", in Korea. If you look at your links involving Korean bigotry against half-breeds, you'll see it is directed mostly against "biracial" Koreans with all Asian ancestry.

Swedes who are proud of their Swedish heritage are one thing. Swedes who celebrate "white pride" are not on the same track, are they.

 

Yes with Korean or Japanese blood being more important than any other. So what if they don't call it 'yellow'? Which of course is how foreigners characterized them not how they characterized themselves.

In a country that feels the need to have black pride then there is nothing wrong with white pride. Its a hypocrisy to say one is fine but not the other.

And by the way I do know african americans who have never experienced discrimination, please don't be condescending to tell me what my experience is and that of others unless of course you pretend to know the experience of all blacks.

 

So it's not the same kind of category as "white" - it's culture specific.

White is not an ethnic category, but black - in the US - is, or was until very recently. Black people in the US had, and still largely have, a common heritage created by a cultural response to plantation slavery and the subsequent racial oppression.

Whites have no such common heritage, unless you want to call that racial privilege a heritage. In which case "pride" seems a bit inappropriate.

There are no blacks raised in the US who have never experienced discrimination.

 

Oy vey. Must we argue about which group had it worse? This is like the four Yorkshiremen skit.