Birthers Gearing Up for Obama's Re-Election?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Birthers Gearing Up for Obama's Re-Election?

    One would think Republicans would be smart enough to know when they've lost.

    And then one would pause for a moment and remember: Oh, yeah. They're Republicans.

    Or, as John Celock reports for The Huffington Post:

    A Republican lawmaker in New Jersey said that a speech he attended Tuesday night left him doubting President Barack Obama's citizenship and he believes that "a higher authority" needs to determine the issue.

    Assemblyman Anthony Bucco (R-Boonton) said a speech Tuesday by birther advocate Jerome Corsi in Morristown -- coordinated by Tea Party activists and endorsed by the Morris County Republican Party -- left him in doubt over whether Obama is currently a citizen and the authenticity of the birth certificate the White House released last year. Bucco said the information presented came from Corsi's new book, "Where's the Birth Certificate?"

    "I haven't really dug down deep, there was some important points raised," Bucco said of the birth certificate issue and Corsi's speech.

    During his speech, Corsi said his research showed forgeries in the birth certificate released by Obama and in other records that Obama released. The evidence shows "the noose is tightening for Obama," said Corsi.

    Bucco said it is not his place to determine whether or not Obama is a citizen. "I am not in a position to say what he put up on screen is demonstrative of evidence; that is for the court of law," Bucco told HuffPost. "This issue has not resolved itself. It won't until some higher authority is involved."

    Bucco has not reviewed the documents Obama released in 2011 in light of Donald Trump's calls for an original copy of the Obama birth certificate to be released by Hawaii officials. He said because he had not researched the material, he did not know if it was the original or a copy.

    Quite an event to be sponsored by the Republican Party, but in the end I suppose it's to be expected. Morris County, New Jersey Sheriff Ed Rochford said the Obama administration should participate in a joint event with professional rabble-rouser Jerome Corsi to finally settle the issue. Or, to apply that to Bucco's approach, Republicans are too stupid to figure out reality, so the Obama administration should encourage their fantasy.

    One wonders if Birthers are pushing this because they expect Obama will be re-elected. "He's sitting in the Oval Office and he's running again," Bucco pointed out.

    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your Republican Party.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Celock, John. "Obama Birth Certificate: Anthony Bucco, New Jersey Legislator, Says Issue Unresolved". The Huffington Post. April 5, 2012. HuffingtonPost.com. April 6, 2012. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-bucco-new-jersey-jerome-corsi_n_1406608.html
     
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  3. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Most of the action taking place on the birther front revolves around Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's investigation.

    So who is this guy...and what are his true intentions.
    Only alternative sources reveal an in-depth interview.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk5K...DvjVQa1PpcFOVvqnVN23oiWCBSrAVL0_HLRxMNBJYq1M=
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Here Come the Birthers (Again)

    Rep. Vicky Hartzler (R-MO) Joins Birther Ranks

    A member of the U.S. House of Representatives is the second elected Republican in the space of a week to publicly identify as a Birther.

    U.S. Rep. Vicky Hartzler answered a question about Obama's birth certificate from a man who identified himself as a veteran during a town hall meeting Thursday. Hartzler -- who was filmed by the group Show Me Progress -- said she had doubts and asked why Obama did not release his birth certificate sooner.

    "You know, I have a lot of doubts about all that. But I don't know, I haven't seen it," Hartzler said. "I'm just at the same place you are on that. You read this, you read that. But I don't understand why he didn't show that right away. I mean, if someone asked for my birth certificate, I'd get my baby book and hand it out and say 'Here it is,' so I don't know."

    The audience member pressed Hartzler on the issue, bringing up Joe Arpaio and his "posse." Arpaio, the sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona, has researched Obama's birth certificate and his Selective Service records and claimed they could be forgeries.

    Hartzler suggested the issue could be settled in the courts, but noted the quickest way to resolve the issue of Obama's citizenship is through the November election, with doubters voting Obama out at that time.


    (Celok)

    What we are seeing here is very possibly this year's Birther strategy. Like Bucco, Hartzler thinks the Birther claims need to be settled in court. And, like Bucco, Hartzler admits in nearly the same breath that she is ignorant of the facts.

    I don't know ... are we supposed to be impressed by such arguments?
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Celok, John. "Congresswoman Vicky Hartzler Expresses Doubt". The Huffington Post. April 6, 2012. HuffingtonPost.com. April 7, 2012. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/vicky-hartzler-birther_n_1409082.html
     
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  7. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    The only arguments that should impress are those given in COURT...and I suspect it will eventually go to court.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Already did

    You mean like it did two and a half years ago?

    U.S. district court judge on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit involving Orly Taitz seeking to have President Obama removed from office because he is not a natural born citizen of the United States.

    In his dismissal – which is, despite the legalese, a pretty entertaining read – Judge David O. Carter writes that removal of a sitting president for any reason "is within the province of Congress, not the courts."


    (Montopoli)
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Montopoli, Brian. "Birther Orly Taitz's Lawsuit Dismissed". Political Hotsheet. October 29, 2009. CBSNews.com. April 7, 2012. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5452727-503544.html
     
  9. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    No I mean a criminal trial for forgery...see post #2.

    This would NOT put Obama himself on trial...nor his presidency.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Oh, yes, the "Watch this propaganda" argument

    Ah, I see. Watch eighty-plus minutes of tinfoil from a known racist sheriff, his posse poodle, and a professional conspiracy theorist with a history of "unsupported conjecture, half-truths, logical fallacies and outright falsehoods"?

    Yeah, I can see how that would be easier than writing your own coherent argument.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Miller, Joe. "Corsi's Dull Hatchet". Annenberg Public Policy Center. September 15, 2008. FactCheck.org. April 7, 2012. http://factcheck.org/2008/09/corsis-dull-hatchet/
     
  11. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    This is why it has to go to court...where it doesnt matter if the messengers are racist or not.

    Youre not going to solve this by summoning vague unfounded rumors, and flinging loaded buzz words around...all willy nilly.
     
  12. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    4,955
    You're not going to solve this. You may as well be arguing with people who are convinced that they have been abducted by aliens, that this is something that regularly happens, and that the government knows it, and is covering it up. Or truthers, or chemtrail people, or whatever conspiracy theory you can think of.

    No reasonable person doubts that President Obama is a legal citizen of the US. The tiny fringe that "still have doubts" are of no consequence.

    "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    It is interesting that these clowns from the State of Arizona are telling the State of Hawaii how they need to construct their long form birth certificates. One would think if they had questions, they could just pick up the phone and call Hawaii officials.
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Tinfoil avatars

    Well, with Arpaio it looks largely retaliatory, because the Justice Department finally called him out on the sort of civil rights violations the old man actually brags about.

    What I always wonder about, though, are the supporters of these tinfoil avatars like Joe Arpaio and Ron Paul, who seem to think, "Here, watch this propaganda movie and believe everything the way I do," is a cogent argument.

    I mean, sure, if they can give me the eighty-four minutes, or however long, back when it's all over and there's nothing useful in it, but they can't.

    So why not take a few minutes and compose a coherent post that will make people actually want to sit through an agit-prop film?

    Oh, right. Duh.

    Silly me.
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    NC-8: Republican Congressional Candidate Toes Birther Line

    NC-8: Republican Congressional Candidate Toes Birther Line

    Richard Hudson, a former congressional chief of staff and one of several Republicans vying to oust Democratic incumbent Larry Kissell in North Carolina's 8th Congressional District, apparently hopes that a strong dose of Birther boilerplate will improve his stature among conservatives in the primary, and all potential voters come November.

    Joshua Miller explains for Roll Call:

    Is Richard Hudson, a former Hill chief of staff and now top contender for the GOP nomination in North Carolina's 8th district, a "birther"?

    It certainly sounds like it. At a county tea party forum on Tuesday, Hudson said there was still some ambiguity as to whether the president was a citizen of United States ....

    .... "There's no question President Obama is hiding something on his citizenship," Hudson said at the event, according to a video provided to Roll Call. "And if you elect me to Congress to represent you, I'll introduce legislation that requires any candidate for president or vice president to be certified by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court as being a citizen."

    "And whether that's the birth certificate or whatever it means, that'll make it really simple from now on, if you want to run for president you need to know that you're going to have to prove you are a citizen. I think that's good and simple," he continued.

    Reached today at his campaign office, Hudson stood by his comments.

    "I think there's a lot of people that think that he's not a citizen. I don't know," Hudson said.

    When reminded that Obama's long-form birth certificate has been released and his citizenship is known, Hudson said he hadn't personally seen the president's birth certificate.

    And yet, Hudson also says the question is "not a pressing issue", which can, if one thinks too hard about it, boggle the mind. To the one, there is "no question" in his mind that a sitting president is hiding something about his citizenship and, thus, qualification to be president, yet it's not a pressing issue?

    It is an interesting balancing act, trying to play up Birther sentiments while trying to play down the importance of the underlying accusation.

    Furthermore, as with the latest generation of emerging Birthers, such as Rep. Vicky Hartzler (R-MO4) and New Jersey state Assemblyman Anthony Bucco (R-Boonton), Hudson seems to be arguing from a specific position of ignorance—he has not personally seen Obama's birth certificate. Indeed, that seems to be the trend: I haven't seen it myself, but there must necessarily be something wrong with it.

    When you stop and think about it, that's kind of disturbing.

    Another disturbing aspect of this rhetorical dance is the underlying lack of faith in public institutions. Should we really expect one who would implicitly accuse the state of Hawai'i of fraud to change his mind just because he's held in his hands a document he can already look at?

    With the North Carolina primary less than three weeks away, and Hudson among the frontrunners in the newly-redistricted 8th, perhaps we might get some indication of just how strong the Birther influence will be in conservative quarters.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Miller, Joshua. "Is Larry Kissell Opponent Richard Hudson a 'Birther'?" At the Races. April 19, 2012. ATR.RollCall.com. April 20, 2012. http://atr.rollcall.com/is-larry-kissell-opponent-richard-hudson-a-birther/
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Update: New Jersey

    Update: New Jersey

    The Star-Ledger editorial board, shortly after the Morris County event noted in the topic post, tore into Assemblyman Anthony Bucco and county GOP Chairman John Sette for their participation:

    Freedom of speech means Corsi can't be punished for questioning Obama's credentials. It doesn't earn his conspiratorial nonsense an equal seat at the table.

    Bucco and Sette aren't faceless internet trolls. They're real-life decision-makers. This is an embarrassment for Morris County's ordinarily straight-laced GOP. Bucco writes laws, remember.

    Sadly, Obama miscalculated when he caved to the birthers and released his birth records, thinking it would put the conspiracy to rest. Not in Morris County, apparently.

    Nothing will appease the tinfoil-hat crowd. The conspiracy's the attraction. These are the same people who believe climate change is a hoax, the CIA killed President Kennedy and the moon landing was filmed on a Hollywood sound stage. After all, what else could explain a black man in the White House?

    It should be noted that last paragraph isn't exactly an escalation for the board; it comes nearly a year after they made the argument that the "Birthers' real concern is race":

    Aside from Donald Trump and his inner heat-seeking missile for self-promotion, birthers are largely unhinged by the fact that a black man occupies the White House. For that reason, and that reason alone, they simply cannot accept the legitimacy of the Barack Obama presidency.

    The latest evidence comes from California. Marilyn Davenport, a member of the Orange County Republican party central committee, circulated an e-mail showing the face of the president superimposed on a chimpanzee, with the caption, "Now you know why — No birth certificate!"

    Party leaders are calling for her resignation. Scott Baugh, the Orange County GOP chairman, called it exactly right when he saw the offending message. He told Davenport the e-mail was "dripping with racism and is in very poor taste." Other party leaders called for her ouster if she doesn't do the right thing and leave under her own steam.

    Instead of listening to their sound advice, Davenport is digging in her heels, calling it "much to do about nothing." She wants to know who ratted her out to the press with a "cowardly" leak. She also wondered if anyone would be "brave enough to come forward." This party hack gives a new definition to "profiles in courage," one that demeans public service and leadership.

    Davenport said the joke had nothing to do with race, "the thought never entered my mind." That's how the birthers operate. When cornered and confronted, you'll hear an indignant outcry that nothing of the kind was intended. Uh-huh. Sure, anything you say lady. Just heed the call of your party's elders. Leave.

    In 2008, the Star-Ledger endorsed Barack Obama's candidacy.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Editorial Board. "Morris County Republicans' birther event an embarrassment". The Star-Ledger. April 9, 2012. Blog.NJ.com. April 22, 2012. http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2012/04/morris_county_republicans_birt.html

    —————. "Birthers' real concern is race". The Star-Ledger. April 19, 2011. Blog.NJ.com. April 22, 2012. http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2011/04/birthers_real_concern_is_race.html
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Because it's Arizona

    Because it's Arizona

    "I'm not a birther. I believe the president was born in Hawaii—or at least I hope he was."

    —Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett

    Despite his disclaimer, Ken Bennett appears to have thrown his lot in with the Birther movement. Charged with overseeing Arizona elections, the Republican Secretary of State explained on Thursday that he was investigating whether or not Barack Obama was born in the United States; his reason is that the Joe Arpaio says so, and 1,200 or so emails sent to Bennett's office after the infamous sheriff's Cold Case Posse accused that the president's birth certificate is a forgery.

    On Thursday, Bennett said he sent his request to Hawaii officials eight weeks ago but has yet to get the proof he was hoping for. He said he didn't want another copy of the birth certificate. He wants Hawaii to give him what he described as "a verification in lieu of a certified copy of a birth certificate."

    In the weeks since then, Bennett said, Hawaii officials have forced him to provide proof that he is who he says he is. They asked him to send them copies of the Arizona laws that prove the secretary of state really is the person in charge of handling the ballots. Admittedly, Bennett said they told him they were "tired of all the requests." But he is continuing anyway.


    (Martin)

    It is a curious approach. To the one, Birthers reject the Full Faith and Credit clause of the U.S. Constitution by continually doubting the government of Hawaii. To the other, Bennett now wants Hawaii to give him even more information, and feels frustrated by the idea that he should have to fulfill the policies of the Hawaiian state government.

    The result is that Bennett acknowledges the possibility that he may have to strike President Obama from the ballot in Arizona. "Or the other option," he explained, "would be I would ask all of candidates, including the president, maybe to submit a certified copy of their birth certificate. But I don't want to do that."

    The problem there, of course, is that such a request would be both redundant and useless. We've seen the president's birth certificate, and therein lies the problem: Birthers don't believe it's real.

    The issue is redundant because it asks for another copy of what is already rejected by the conspiracy theorists. It is useless because the tinfoils Bennett has thrown his lot in with aren't going to be placated by another copy of what they already reject.

    While Bennett doesn't want to be seen as a Birther because he is hoping to succeed Gov. Jan Brewer, he does want to build his credibility among that faction.

    In the end, while the odds are somewhere between no chance and infinitesimal chance that Bennett would actually try to strike a sitting president from his state's ballot over this, the point is actually to find a way to keep Birthers in the news cycle. Apparently, they—and Bennett, who claims to not be a Birther—think this will pay off for Republicans in November.
    ____________________

    Notes:


    Martin, Nick R. "Arizona Goes Birther: Secretary Of State Says It's 'Possible' Obama Won't Be On Ballot". TPM Muckraker. My 18, 2012. TPMMuckraker.TalkingPointsMemo.com. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...n_bennett_obama_birth_certificate_birther.php
     
  18. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure that follows. As you mention above (and David Weigel over at Slate.com concurs) this is likely a matter of Bennett positioning himself ahead of gubernatorial primaries down the road, Romney be damned. Likewise with the SuperPAC that was planning to revive the Wright line of attack, and ended up causing a stir over strategy and direction in the campaign - that one isn't so much real strategy as a political ad company pandering to certain easily-exploited funders.

    What this all adds up to as far as November is concerned is that the GOP is in disarray. The party normally known for its discipline is unable to converge on a common strategy, or even impose a mechanism for deciding such, and various players throughout the system are making moves that boost their narrow, local prospects down the line at the expense of Romney this year. Which would be to say that, whatever brave face they put on it, the Republicans don't really expect to win in November, and nominated Romney as a throw-away candidate. They'll never come out and admit that - it would be terrible for the brand, after all - but to the extent that they're unwilling to sacrifice for a win, and nobody is stepping up to rein that in, well... it's half a dozen of one, six of the other.

    One thing that does raise questions, though, is why Drudge is running with the birther thing. On the one hand, populist pandering to the fringe of the base is historically all the explanation one needs for Drudge coverage. On the other hand, he's unitary and connected enough that you'd expect to see push-back against things that harm Romney from the RNP/ROmney campaign. So if Drudge doesn't shut up about this in short order, we'll have to wonder whether the top-level strategists actually do want to run with Birtherism for November, or whether Drudge (and the teabagger faction) has left their orbit and become a liability.
     
  19. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/18/Media-Refuses-Coverage-Obama-Kenya-Lit-Agency

    "While the internet buzzed with Breitbart News’ release of a booklet from President Obama’s literary agency circa 1991 describing him as being “born in Kenya,” the mainstream media still refuses to report the story, or plays defense for Obama.

    Never mind that the agency used the “born in Kenya” biography until 2007. Never mind that authors who have worked with the agency state that the agency asks that authors pen their own biographies. Never mind that Obama has routinely padded his biographical details to appeal to particular audiences.

    Nothing to see here."


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  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Probably because the main streampress likes to report credible material. Something Brietbart is not known for, Brietbart is known for doctoring material to fit the partisan story line.
     
  21. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/Obama-pamphlet-in-use-2007

    "According to archive.org, a website that caches websites on a regular basis, the official website for Dystel & Goderich, Obama’s literary agents – was using the Barack Obama “born in Kenya” language until April 2007.

    Archive.org shows that the Dystel website used the following biography for Obama as of April 3, 2007:

    BARACK OBAMA is the junior Democratic senator from Illinois and was the dynamic keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He was also the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. He was born in Kenya to an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister and was raised in Indonesia, Hawaii, and Chicago. His first book, DREAMS FROM MY FATHER: A STORY OF RACE AND INHERITANCE, has been a long time New York Times bestseller.

    Obama launched his presidential campaign in February 2007.

    By April 21, 2007, the Obama bio had been changed to state that Obama was born in Hawaii:

    BARACK OBAMA is the junior Democratic senator from Illinois and was the dynamic keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He was also the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. He was born in Hawaii to an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister and was raised in Indonesia, Hawaii, and Chicago. His first book, DREAMS FROM MY FATHER: A STORY OF RACE AND INHERITANCE, has been a long time New York Times bestseller.

    Obama had already been a national figure for three years, since the Democratic National Convention in 2004, by the time the biography was changed; he had been a sitting Senator for over two years."
     
  22. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    Carcano

    It's real simple...

    1. Obama's mother was an American citizen.

    2. Obama is therefore a "Natural Born Citizen", no matter where in the world he was born.

    John McCain was born in Panama, I don't see anyone making something out of that or questioning his eligability to run in 2008. Hmmm, now what could be the difference between how one is treated as compared to the other, both of whom ran for President?

    Birtherism is a stalking horse for the regressive, racist feelings of those who practice it, either overtly(they know they are racists)or covertly(they just don't like Obama, they'll tell you all sorts of reasons, but they are usually lies, ignorance or trivial).

    Grumpy

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  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Don't believe everything you read on the web Carcano. The bottom line is your source is not credible. One there is no proof of Brietbart's claim. Two, even if it were true, it is obviously wrong as President Obama has given both the short and long form birth certificates and further validation is found in newspaper birth announcement of the period. IF THE BRIETBART ARTICLE WERE TRUE, It would not be the first time a publisher made an error and it won't be the last.
     

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