Bipolar, Schizoaffective, BPD (Ect)... Can the General Population Trust These People?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by PHPlatonica, Apr 4, 2006.

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Can The General Pop Trust these Individuals?

Poll closed Apr 24, 2006.
  1. Of course Not

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Not with Most things

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  3. Not with Important Issues

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  4. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    SYMPTOMS AND TREATMENT BIPOLAR
    Depressive Episode Manic Episode
    Essential Features (Must Be Present)
    Social or Occupational Impairment
    Either:
    Sad or Depressed Mood
    Apathy
    Irritability or Hostility (if 18 or younger)
    Essential Features (Must Be Present)
    Social or Occupational Impairment
    Either:
    Elated Mood
    Irritability or Hostility

    Core Features (Usually Present)
    Fatigue
    Sleeping Problem
    Appetite or Eating Problem
    Feeling Worthless or Guilty
    Suicidal Thoughts or Risk of Harming Self
    Poor Concentration or Attention
    Either:
    Hyperactivity
    Slowing or Poverty of Response
    Core Features (Usually Present)
    Inflated Self-Esteem or Grandiosity
    Decreased Need for Sleep
    Reckless or Impulsive Behavior
    Over-Talkative or Racing Speech
    Hyperactivity
    Poor Concentration or Attention

    Associated Features (Present When Severe)
    Pain or Discomfort
    Sexual Problems
    Poor Overall Physical Functioning
    Distrust or Suspiciousness
    Economic Problems
    Depression may require hospitalization, hence:
    Dependent Behavior
    Poor Personal Self-Care
    Need for Institutional Care
    Depression may increase addiction, hence:
    Increased Smoking
    Increased Alcohol Abuse
    Increased Drug or Medication Abuse
    Depression may increase anxiety, hence:
    Phobia
    Panic Attacks
    Generalized Anxiety
    Depression may progress to "pseudodementia", psychosis or stupor, hence:
    Memory Impairment
    Intellectual Impairment
    Impaired Ability to Communicate Using Language
    Impaired Ability to Communicate Using Emotions
    Delusions or Hallucinations
    Disorientation
    Poor Insight
    Associated Features (Present When Severe)
    Distrust or Suspiciousness
    Economic Problems
    Mania may require hospitalization, hence:
    Poor Personal Self-Care
    Need for Institutional Care
    Mania may increase impulsivity, hence:
    Illegal or Criminal Behavior
    Physical Violence
    Mania may increase addiction, hence:
    Increased Smoking
    Increased Alcohol Abuse
    Increased Drug or Medication Abuse
    Mania often is mixed with depression, hence:
    Sad or Depressed Mood
    Apathy
    Generalized Anxiety
    Feeling Worthless or Guilty
    Suicidal Thoughts or Risk of Harming Self
    Mania may progress to catatonic stupor or psychosis, hence:
    Memory Impairment
    Intellectual Impairment
    Impaired Ability to Communicate Using Language
    Impaired Ability to Communicate Using Emotions
    Slowing or Poverty of Response
    Delusions or Hallucinations
    Grossly Disorganized Speech or Behavior
    Disorientation
    Poor Insight

    Diagnostic Criteria
    Schizoaffective,
    An uninterrupted period of illness during which, at some time, there is either (1) a Major Depressive Episode, (2) a Manic Episode, or (3) a Mixed Episode concurrent with symptoms that meet (4) Criterion A for Schizophrenia.
    Note: The Major Depressive Episode must include depressed mood.

    (1) Criteria for Major Depressive Episode

    Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.
    Note: Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.

    depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.
    markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others)
    significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains.
    insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day
    psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)
    fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
    feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)
    diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)
    recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide
    The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode
    The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
    The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).
    The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation.
    (2) Criteria for Manic Episode

    A distinct period of abnormally and persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting at least 1 week (or any duration if hospitalization is necessary).
    During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:
    inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
    decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
    more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
    flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
    distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
    increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
    excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., engaging in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)
    The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode
    The mood disturbance is sufficiently severe to cause marked impairment in occupational functioning or in usual social activities or relationships with others, or to necessitate hospitalization to prevent harm to self or others, or there are psychotic features.
    The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).
    (3) Criteria for Mixed Episode

    The criteria are met both for a Manic Episode and for a Major Depressive Episode (except for duration) nearly every day during at least a 1-week period.
    The mood disturbance is sufficiently severe to cause marked impairment in occupational functioning or in usual social activities or relationships with others, or to necessitate hospitalization to prevent harm to self or others, or there are psychotic features.
    The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).
    (4) Criterion A of Schizophrenia

    Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):
    delusions
    hallucinations
    disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
    grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
    negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition
    Only one symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.
    During the same period of illness, there have been delusions or hallucinations for at least 2 weeks in the absence of prominent mood symptoms.
    Symptoms that meet criteria for a mood episode are present for a substantial portion of the total duration of the active and residual periods of the illness.
    The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.
    Specify type:
    Bipolar Type: if the disturbance includes a Manic or a Mixed Episode (or a Manic or a Mixed Episode and Major Depressive Episodes)
    Depressive Type: if the disturbance only includes Major Depressive Episodes

    BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder)
    Symptoms
    While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day.5 These may be associated with episodes of impulsive aggression, self-injury, and drug or alcohol abuse. Distortions in cognition and sense of self can lead to frequent changes in long-term goals, career plans, jobs, friendships, gender identity, and values. Sometimes people with BPD view themselves as fundamentally bad, or unworthy. They may feel unfairly misunderstood or mistreated, bored, empty, and have little idea who they are. Such symptoms are most acute when people with BPD feel isolated and lacking in social support, and may result in frantic efforts to avoid being alone.

    People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.

    People with BPD exhibit other impulsive behaviors, such as excessive spending, binge eating and risky sex. BPD often occurs together with other psychiatric problems, particularly bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and other personality disorders.
     
  2. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    DAMN there is a LOT of Crap out there...

    TO What extent do people feel that people with these mental disturbances can be "Trusted"....
    From taking care of your children (IE School, Day Care, Baby sitting, Bus Driver.)

    To being a Police Officer, Fire fighter, Any Politically held position...

    Should they be aloud to Own weapons? (Just in general) If no, Why?

    Should they all be Medicated for the good of themselves and the General Population? Or just left alone completely to ... do what ever they want?

    Can they even be trusted with simple issues and daily encounters?
    Like, with things they say? even though it's usually subject to change depending on the mood of the person? ( how do you trust that?)

    Wanted to kill them selves. That too, is subject to change.

    Carelessness and forgetfulness. Quick at anger, also Quick to happiness.

    Where do you draw the Social Boundaries of "Acceptable and Trust Worthy?"
     
  3. illuminatingtherapy Initiate of The Universe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    325
    They need therapy. Any mental disorder needs therapy in one way or another.
     
  4. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    YES we do!
    But Im serious.. It is a serious issue, that I think a lot of paranoia comes from.
    I can't speak for every one of course, But.. I am curious as too the general population as a whole?

    When and where do we draw the lines?

    Should we in all honesty WAIT for a "crime" against others to be committed?

    Should every one stay on guard around known people with these problems?


    I love psychology. It has made me the MOST angry, and has also been the most helpful.
    It does not work like that for every one.
    And I know from personal experience, that I am automatically not trusted with my Opinions by Doctors, and family.. Even though I haven't "burnt any thing down" in a while, I am still not totally trusted.
    And Doctors, knowing my diagnosis, take me less seriously when I have a legitimate ailment for fear of prescribing something that can be addictive to some thing I MAY harm my self with (DOH) So I am denied a variety of "treatment options".

    So, are we honestly that frowned upon by most people in the general population?
    Is it a case of, once you have already messed up, people should be weary?

    Help is out there. Absolutely, But... It's not individualized enough, just categorized and grouped. *frown* you wouldn't believe the bending backwards I have to do to PROVE myself to other people who know my diagnosis. It's degrading
     
  5. illuminatingtherapy Initiate of The Universe Registered Senior Member

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    325
    Interresting topic, indeed, but how can any decide where to draw the line? People with a diagnosis are often met with prejudice, and wouldn't drawing a line only be fuel for hatred? Just out of curiosity, what is your diagnosis?
     
  6. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    I don't know illuminatingtherapy. It COULD. But, I think it is important, and I think a "fuller" understanding of what people think of "us" would help calm down the sadness, and give clarity in the ways we are treated.
    It's not like it isn't already Embarrassing.

    I was Clinically Diagnosed as Bipolar. I had (a few) Major Manic episodes. (isn't that type 2?)
    I never thought I owned anything I didn't, Nor did I think I had magical powers (though there were some interesting times where I wondered about that. That just might be lack of self esteem and recognizing I am smarter then I thought)...

    Any how... I lost it completely when I hit puberty. Terrified. I had already had an interesting introduction to life as it were. But my sisters made it out great. I unfortunately didn't do as good. My Biological father is a Schizophrenic, so I am sure there is a LOT of genetics playing on my problem as well. No doubt there really.

    But, you see.. I had MORALS and CALM pounded into me. I am not saying I didn't need it at all. I was a wreck for a long time. But I was threatened with the things I loved being taken away if I did not comply. So I complied. It haunts my nightmares still though. That every thing I love will be taken away, or I will freak out and lose it all again. (paranoia)

    Any how.. It's been quite a while since I have had any disturbing out break. Yet, I am still seeing that with my diagnosis I am taken on a "Lighter scale".
    The initial feeling is that I am not trusted because of my known diagnosis. But every one is to afraid that I will act out or fall apart again, that they walk on egg shells around me. Talk down to me. Afraid of what actions I might next take. Always on edge with me. * sigh.. I can not get that trust back. And the people who only know of my diagnosis, and who were not there for the episodes, distrust me automatically. They become defensive and weary in my presence.
    I wanted to know ... well... the stigma behind it all. Maybe I could enlighten "normal" people with my condition that we aren't all monsters at all. And those of us who need the MOST help, are not getting it.
     
  7. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    OH!
    I missed one thing you said...

    Drawing the line..
    It SEEMS that ten years ago, it was easier for a Psychologist to legally hold a person who was showing signs of off behavior. In order to protect that person, and other persons.

    Now days, a person with a disorder literally has to MESS UP, go out and hurt others, or them self before anything can be legally done. (in most states this varies as well)

    So, there IS a line where you lose your rights. The 72 hour hold was designed for that.
    But after that, the clinician and doctor have to PROVE this person will be a threat if released.

    So when and how and where is the line drawn that says "ok, you will mess up, even though you haven't. But we are going to make sure you don't"

    It's honestly got to be one of the HARDEST most hurtful and scary arrears for BOTH doctor and patient. Not to mention family members.

    And me, I don't know if this makes ME a hypocrite, but I would be terrified if some one with my diagnosis and not medicated was taking care of my children. Because I REMEMBER every thing I was capable of when I "flipped out"... I feel a sense of dread at this because on the one hand, I don't want my children hurt at all. Not ever. Protect them at all costs.
    But on the other hand, people with these disorders and myself are people too. And CAN for the most part function pretty well. How ever, when we mess up, we tend to MESS UP.

    It's a rock and a hard place. a Place where you don't feel like you are human. You wonder constantly if the way you were treated was because your "mentally unstable" or "are people just jerks some times"...

    So, I want to talk about these things.
     
  8. illuminatingtherapy Initiate of The Universe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    325
    Well PHP, surely other people than those with a diagnosis are in as much a desperate need of therapy. People being afraid of how you might act, means that they are revealing those insecurities they have towards what aren't considered 'reliable' or 'sane'. Take the witch trials in example. No doubt today, that the insane people were those murdering many innocent girls based on fear and prejudice. Should they be considered 'normal', just because they didn't have a diagnosis? Where would the line of 'normal' go?

    Sounds like you have your own insecurities towards your diagnosis, am I right? If so, get rid of them, and maybe you won't bother about the people talking lightly to you, or acting different towards you. Maybe you'll acknowledge the fact that they do, but consider it their loss, cause they're afraid of talking substantially or profound and/or honest with you, so that they miss out on all the great things and thoughts you have to offer. Keep with people who acknowledge you for you, with all your strengths and flaws, but strive to reach your own potential regarding the diagnosis and the society. That's the best you can do, yet everything is within your limit.
     
  9. illuminatingtherapy Initiate of The Universe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    325
    And of course, if the disorder is genetic, and not trauma, how much do you trust people with your kind of disorder, even if on medication? Are they trustworty at all, in your opinion? By the way, 'sane' people can mess up ten times as bad, as you possibly EVER will. There are far worse personalities to encounter than those with a genetic mental disorder. Trust me. Look at most people with money and power. They're just better at covering up their mistakes.
     
  10. spidergoat alien lie form Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    46,901
    Most of these conditions are personal and no one's business but their own. With bi-polar, in the manic phase, they are often quite effective and motivated people. I would think with certain professions, like child care and police work, they would and should be screened out. Depression can be a temporary condition, though.
     
  11. kirstykiwi Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    81
    Mental illness has nothing to do with whether one can 'trust' or not. You need to look beyond the illness.

    You have to look at the environment they are in - for example, those who are in the mental health system for years build up a 'distrust' of society for example, because of threads like these. Its called discrimination and Stigma.

    I think the majority of those with mental illness are good reliable people who struggle daily with a yuck condition. When they get involved with drugs and alcohol, it can make them less reliable.

    People who are in the mental health system often find housing and employment and making friends outside their own peers difficult due to their condition. They just want to be accepted in soicety like everyone else!
    People are people - lets have a thread that says "Can you 'trust' people with cancer?"
     
  12. illuminatingtherapy Initiate of The Universe Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    325
    Remember, though, that this regards genetic mental dysfunctions, not neurosis or trauma, like depression or paranoia. They can't be blamed for their condition, nor can they change it, because the brain doesn't function right; dysfunction. But is it fair to treat them differently? Should they be treated differently? If so, why/why not?
     
  13. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    Of course I have issues over my diagnosis. no one wants to be told something is wrong with them. HA... Right? Unless your a hypochondriac.

    Of course the witch trials sucked. They were completely wrong. No doubt about it.
    ... maybe... Maybe a lot of people are just not educated enough about mental instability?
    Those who have suffered, or encountered it, usually do NOT like it at all. And there is a personal anxiety towards people with an illness? ON a subconscious level maybe?

    When you have been through therapy, and what not, basic every day behavior is placed infront of you to notice. So you pick up on jesters more then most people would because your so self conscious about messing up again. (insecurity) I think people can feel that insecurity. Or at least sense it through behavior recognition, that they just act "accordingly"...... But on a more "social" level I do wonder.

    For instance my doctor, just a family physician, who knows my diagnosis ONLY. Never has seen me erupt, is weary to prescribe MANY things to me.
    After a "decent enough" battle, I wanted to know why. And it boiled down to losing his license IF I hurt myself, or got out of hand.
    I was angry. Who wouldn't be? So, I said "Just because I HAVE Bipolar, doesn't mean I AM Bipolar"...
    He disagreed with me. He had the PHD to do so.
    He said that I WAS Bipolar, and that, just that alone, put's him on edge or caution when I need something for sleep or other problems. Insurance reasons and legal reasons apply.
    I wondered how many "other" people are "Taught" that about mental diagnosis's.
    So then because I am Bipolar, when I break my leg is it not broken? The same as any body else's leg would be?
    Of course.
    So then I am not entitled to the narcotic pain relief, because of my Bipolar diagnosis JUST in case I MIGHT abuse them? And does this make the pain in my broken leg any more less severe? What is taking precedence on his decision?
    his License?
    his Understanding of my diagnosis?
    his inability to trust me enough that I would not abuse something?

    It seems to boil down to a lack of trust.
    So then there are things that I am not entitled to because of the diagnosis. I have never had a history of drug abuse. So I know it isn't my past making his decision.
    Perhaps something in my behavior some where? But that still boils down to trust.
    a bullion of trust. (ha-ha)

    What is he not trusting?
    Is he not trusting my stability?

    So every thing trickled down to his fear, because of my diagnosis and his understanding of it, that I MIGHT abuse narcotics if they are given. So nip it in the bud, and save his own behind Just in case. He refuses any prescription, based on my diagnosis, that might show "Abuse or harm"... And my leg still hurts (metaphorically)
    At this point, I do not feel like a "person" any more. But rather a disease. A Leper.
    Paranoid about not being trusted.

    And this is just a tiny example of what goes on. You lose so much "say" when you are like this.

    Not to mention the chaos that goes on behind your eyes. Can be over whelming.
    It leads a LOT of people to suicide. Why bother being around if your a Burdon, can not be trusted, can not be treated the way you see other people being treated. Unsure of your own existence and Mortality.
    An anger and behavior that comes from a simple source. Like a Pandora's box.
    Suddenly you are paying for the actions of your behavior, and every one over looks the spark that ignited the behavior. It become trivial compared to the destruction being made.
    Then it is simple to say "See? this is why I tell you what I tell you. You over react."

    Except that... all that behavior could have all been avoided if the person were just given a chance.
    Where do you draw the line?
    Do you WAIT for the individual to take that "final mistake" and kill them self or some one else? Or, do you suspect that the person should just be not given the "chance" to mess up?
    It's a thin line that lacks any communication. "death and destruction" Are Final. Stop it before it COULD happen? or... try it, and hope it Doesn't happen?

    When you have an emotional dilemma, you tend to change your mind.............. A LOT.
    Doing JUST THAT makes people hesitant with you, unsure. One minute you are saying "yes" and the next, "no"... The perspectives change depending on the underlying emotion. Then the thought process kicks in, and the defensive mode. Then Empathy...
    Basically, a tangle of emotions just to get one simple answer out.
    These things going on in the head of some one who is emotionally, or mentally unstable.. thinking to much.
    .... With those changing thoughts, how CAN any one "trust" you? You aren't even sure how you will respond about the situation tomorrow, or in a few hours.
    So.. then, maybe people CAN NOT trust some one with emotional problems because they are indecisive?
    Then the whole trust worthy thing has to do with the inability to stick with one "thing"... and there for you are not "trusted"...
    So we aren't "trust worthy"
    Main Entry: 1trust
    Pronunciation: 'tr&st
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, probably of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse traust trust; akin to Old English trEowe faithful -- more at TRUE
    1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed
    2 a : dependence on something future or contingent : HOPE b : reliance on future payment for property (as merchandise) delivered : CREDIT
    3 a : a property interest held by one person for the benefit of another b : a combination of firms or corporations formed by a legal agreement; especially : one that reduces or threatens to reduce competition
    4 archaic : TRUSTWORTHINESS
    5 a (1) : a charge or duty imposed in faith or confidence or as a condition of some relationship (2) : something committed or entrusted to one to be used or cared for in the interest of another b : responsible charge or office c : CARE, CUSTODY <the child committed to her trust>
    - in trust : in the care or possession of a trustee
     
  14. kirstykiwi Registered Senior Member

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    81
    Phplatonica, There is so much misdiagnosis out there - don't worry about a diagnosis - You are a person, not a diagnosis or a label. Sometimes it good to have a diagnosis as then you know what you are battling. Knowledge is power.
    The fear that comes from your 'mates' is because they are ignorant, and frightened due to the stigma.
    Just know that those who have suffered it are like a family - they will have compassion and understanding. I've found those with mental illness are the least judgemental. :)
     
  15. illuminatingtherapy Initiate of The Universe Registered Senior Member

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    325
    Wow, that was an insightful reply, PHP. Loved the highlited section the most. Everyone should consider this, it's of great value.

    But, then again, as the insecurity and lack of self-confidence towards ones own behaviour and personality becomes apparent to oneself in ones everyday life, wouldn't one start to question: what's normal? What's sane? Maybe the insecurity is due to the diagnosis, not the illness? It's apparently the doctor that is failing. Not about the diagnosis, but about the treatment of it.
     
  16. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    554
    Trust, there is the definition. Up one.

    See... My Opinion is that spidergoat is RIGHT.
    There are situations that you can not properly give "trust" in when it come to mental illness. Even IF they are temporary some of the end results can be pretty "final"..

    Cancer patients can't be brought into the same category.. BUT would you want some one who was on chemo therapy and Other heavy medications guarding your possessions? Do you think that they could get past their pain and mental alertness long enough to "Protect" on a "constant" level?

    Would you like some one who has epilepsy being your heart surgeon? a blind doctor doing open brain surgery? Could you TRUST him/her enough to do it compared to a Physician who could see? We are talking about your life here. One false move... and that's it. Should we just "feel sorry" for the blind doctor and look past the disability so far that our own lives COULD be in danger?
    No one would purposely place them selves in a position like that if it messed with their own mortality.

    No one would. And do you think this would probly make them FEEL like less of a person?
    I would hope it does.
    But that isn't going to change anything is it.

    The thing is simple... To what extent should one hand out "trust"... When do you draw the line behind Moral obligation, and Mortality?

    When it comes to people who are already UN reliable due to their in ability to function on a "norm", then they are NOT trust worthy at all.
    the Misconception I see is that People take trust too Personally. as if it were a character flaw some how.
    Mental health has been around for a while. Not as long as these conditions, But when it comes down to YOUR LIFE, would you trust a person who is known for their inadequacy in being stable to take care of you.
     
  17. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    Oh Kirsty, you sweet heart *smile*

    That was so sweet.

    I "accept" my diagnosis. For a few reasons for myself only.
    one, to show myself there are others who suffer with me.
    two, to not beat my self up should I become manic or depressed to quickly.
    three, to better understand the treatments available around people with similar chemical reactions that I have.

    As with anything though, It can be used against you too.
    I can not legally own a firearm.
    I can not be a pharmacist, police officer etc...
    I can not be a doctor.
    The military would never have me.
    And there are just a number of things that under this diagnosis you are not aloud to have. NOW.. that is IF you go as far as I did... and Have a court hearing (HA-HA)
    So I am on Paper.
    I could fight it I suppose. If I was that adamant about wanting a gun or to be a doctor. I would have to PROVE myself completely.
    But when it comes to states of the mind, and the shifting and changing, I would be asking for trouble.
    See what I mean?
    I am alright about being "fuct" up... That's not the thing.
    I wonder to what extant does the "trust" issue go.
    Again, Trust isn't always about your "person"... But your ability
     
  18. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    554
    illuminating,
    Thank you for the comments.

    I believe that there is an OVER stigma when it comes to mental health issues.
    And what breaks my heart is the fact that I will get better care and medication because I have insurance, then the sever schizophrenic on the street.

    And you know what? I am Terrified of them.

    I lived in a few Asylums. I know these behaviors up close and personal. Not with a clinicians out look, but as a person to persons out look.
    So I know that the man on the street who is talking into his shoe, and yelling at god for not coming over to dinner, is NOT on a level of reality that would be SAFE for my own well being. Whether he means well or not isn't even the issue.
    But I KNOW that if I were in an environment, with staff and people, I would not be afraid. In fact, I would treat him as an individual and even talk to him. because my environment will be safer.
    I really feel that people, consciously or no, DO that. There is this invisible line that our instinct draws that points out possible danger. It is felt in anxiety's. What is amazing is the chemical responses in our bodies and how we react to them.

    I am not at all saying that any one with ANY disability is a BAD worthless person. Not at all!
    But there are things that person's with certain disabilities can NOT do, unless they can prove beyond suspicion that they CAN do it. Usually when that happens the diagnosis changes...

    Also, with cancers and illness's and defects, you can readily "see them" in at scans, and MRI's (For the most part)... When it comes to the Mind or Emotion, you MAY get a few less chemicals and firing neurons, but the person needs to be evaluated for a length of time because every one will exhibit these abnormalities under certain stress, or sickness'.
    The person who truly has an emotional, or Mental disorder will continuously exhibit the chemical responses, or the off Neuron firings. And even then, it does not mean it will always happen, so there isn't really a "line" that can be drawn there that 100% states that this will or will not happen again.
    That uncertainty.... For most people, is enough to limit the amount of responsibilities and allowances in people who have shown past behavior that suggests they could be a threat.

    And AGAIN.. TRUST isn't totally about your personality, it is also about your capabilities and what you have exhibited in the past.

    That can apply to every one. On MANY different levels. But, known behavior that has happened before is looked at with caution and suspicion to insure it is not triggered some how again. Once that "trust" is broken, trusting on any level is hard to do.
     
  19. kirstykiwi Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    81
    Phplatonica,
    Of course you can be a chemist, doctor or whatever if you have the ability. Tons of psychiatrists etc enter the field through their own experience. And I know police officers with Bi polar. This is in NZ rather than the US though. I guess it depends whether you are under a mental health act -'committed' or not. The mental health act here is discriminatory - one cannot choose their own treatment or live where they want or see who they want sometimes unless the doctors ok it.
    You need to 'join them' rather than beat them - health professonals. Become one yourself, and do your bit to improve consumers lives. Be a support worker or something, and be an agent of change for the mental health system.
    Hold your head up and say "I have a mental illness" proudly, as you are a survivor. Its so common now, you aren't out of the ordinary. OK? Cheers
     
  20. jshatz Registered Member

    Messages:
    24
    This is not necessarily true. Someone can function well in a HYPOmanic episode (which is part of Type 2 Bipolar), but most in true MANIA cannot function well for long in that state. There are racing thoughts, pressured speech, motivation for goal directed behaviors (though they often cannot complete tasks), excessive impulses (especially for risk taking behaviors like sex, drugs, or spending money), and sometimes even psychosis can occur in an acute manic state.

    Mania is not always a "high" and euphoric state either. Mania symptoms can be extreme irritability, rage and poor judgment. There are also "mixed" states of mania and depression which can be very confusing and horrible for the person experiencing them. In fact alot of violence and suicide in people with bipolar disorder happen in the manic or mixed state. Even Vincent van Gigh had spent 70 days doing 70 paintings in a manic state right before he committed suicide.


    And for depression, there are different severities of clinical depression. The type that comes with bipolar type 1 can be short lived, or it can last months, or people can have several episodes in one year. It can be a debilitating mental illness without treatment. Even with treatment (medication and therapy) people may still cycle, but not be as severe.
     

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