Biological Energy Redistribution?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by KUMAR5, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    Hello,
    Greetings!!

    This dynamic matter recently pop up by reading following quotes and appear to be quite important for better understanding:

    Can we get changes in organs size & quality esp Brain/Mental(Consciousness & intelligence) vs Physical due to energy redistribution from one body part/system to other part/system resulting in inherited or acquired changes in their performance & power?

    Whether recent shifts of physical to mental causing odd creative and destructive introductions be due to this reason?

    Best wishes.

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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    No, we can't.

    What this theory is based on is the idea that evolution can respond, over many many generations, to an environmental change, in this case an increase in the ease and efficiency of nutrition.

    This is not caused by "energy redistribution" between parts of the body. What happens is gradual alterations occur in the body proportions of a population, over generations, due to a change in the balance of activities that the organism needs to perform to sustain itself and reproduce. Those changes in body proportions result in a redistribution of energy consumption between parts of the body.

    You seem to be in danger of confusing cause and effect.
     
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  5. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    459
    Welcome. What does it suggest in that link "To explain a decreased gut providing the amount of energy required for an increased brain size" ?
     
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  7. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    459
    Yes, there can be an issue in it as told be exchemist. Whether hen first or egg first? Whether ease and efficiency of nutrition caused changes in organs due to energy redistribution OR natural environmental changes had necessitated changes in organs & energy redistribution? Former looks more logical.
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    It suggests that enough energy to support the needs of an increased brain size can only be obtained from a decreased gut if the food is cooked, and that, therefore, cooked food was a necessary precursor to both a reduced gut and in increased brain.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    No you are misunderstanding. The change in diet IS an environmental change, as far the evolution of the organism is concerned.

    And I repeat, the change is not due to an internal energy redistribution. That would be an idiotic suggestion, as there is no mechanism to effect such a redistribution, obviously.
     
  10. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    Is it not the same understanding that decreased physical energy due to ease n efficient food option caused reduced gut and increased brain due to energy redistribution? Yes, cause n effects. Here cause is changed option and effect is changed organs and energy redistribution. Our modern changes should also indicate it. Since secondary natural, odd adaptations of unnatural nature should be possible.
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    Exactly. The energy redistribution is a consequence, not a cause, of the change in body proportions.

    Your last two sentences do not appear to make sense, so I cannot comment on those.
     
  12. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    Thanks. Is it true, environmental changes, natural or adopted, happen first and evolution or adaptations thereafter? If yes, why can't energy application changes in different activities be taken as environmental changes?
     
  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    You will need to explain to me how the "application" of "energy" can change. It seems a fairly meaningless idea.

    Remember: energy is not "stuff". You can't have a bottle of "energy". Energy is just a property of a given physical system.
     
  14. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    Will application of energy not change by change in physical or mental activities? If we need less energy to absorb the nutrients due to ease in getting foods and due more efficient foods, cooked or processed, it mean energy need for it is less.
     
  15. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    I think, main pop up issue here is, which is cause and which is consequence. Are these not just cascading and interdependent matter like eg. Energy caused matter and then matter mediated energy...?
     
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    No. We've now established a clear cause-and-effect sequence:

    Improved availability of nutrition -> difference balance of activity -> evolutionary trend to larger brain and smaller digestive tract -> change in energy consumption pattern by the organs of the body. This at least is the thesis advanced in the articles we have been discussing.

    Waffling about energy-matter interconversion is utterly irrelevant to the subject at hand.
     
  17. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    Yes I agree to it. In short, it can describe, change in environment can lead to change in activity which can cause evolutionary changes in anatomical and physiological systems and redistribution of energy consumption. Ok? However, we may also need to check, how energy is involved in first three changes.
     
  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    Yes OK to the first part.

    But why do we need to "check" how energy is involved in these steps? Check what? In what way? To establish what?
     
  19. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    Yes, now I feel it is not required. Thanks. Now, whether such changes and redistribution of energy will be in our benefits or not,? I take these changes as secondary natural as happened due to change in environment.
     
  20. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    .... 2, sorry this matter to be taken first. Whether we progressively got and getting such changes and energy redistribution of energy from physical to mental?
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    Depends what you mean by benefit.

    In terms of ultimate evolutionary success of the organism, it is too early to say. Homo sapiens has not been around that long.

    In terms of what we think we are, then I would not willingly trade my intellect for that of a small-brained ape. Would you?
     
  22. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    459
    Yes not so. However, whether it is apparent recently, we are getting rogressively shifted more to mental side and less to physical side,?
     
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,048
    Possibly. It's true that the evolutionary advantage from being physically strong is far less obvious in modern societies. But it is not clear to me that the number of offspring depends on physical strength at all. So it may be neutral. Also it not clear that people with stronger mental powers have more children either.

    So I doubt that we can presume there is evolutionary driver either way today.
     

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