Big Bang Theory is WRONG - 33 Top Scientists Object

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by MarkCGreer, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    This is not correct. The total amount of energy and mass in the universe is zero. The only "thing" (for lack of a better word) that was created was organization. And since organization is not actually a thing, literally "nothing" was created. All that happened was that the universe (yes I know there was no universe yet but I don't know what else to call the... er... space... where it now exists) went from a state of maximum entropy (complete lack of organization) to a state of less entropy (organization now exists).

    The Second Law of Thermodynamics allows for this. It says that entropy tends to increase over time, but it does not do so monotonically. Spatially and temporally local reversals of entropy are possible, and furthermore there is no size limit on them. The Big Bang may have been one big mother of a local reversal of entropy (and how would we know? What do we have to compare it to?) but it did not violate any natural laws and it did not result in any paradoxes.
    Yes there is one, and it's called randomness. Again, this does not violate the Second Law so long as the complexity decreases over time, which it is in fact doing as we speak.

    Like many people, you seem unable to comprehend the things that can happen by chance, if chance is given thirteen billion years and a rather large expanse of space in which to work.
    You have just alerted us to the fact that you are prone to hyperbole, which automatically makes us skeptical of anything else you plan on saying.
    It's not a settled fact like evolution or plate tectonics, but it is a hypothesis for which a huge volume of evidence exists. It is not quite a canonical scientific theory like relativity, but it has achieved enough status that anyone who argues against it must satisfy the Rule of Laplace: Extraordinary assertions must be supported by extraordinary evidence before anyone is obliged to treat them with respect. In other words, if you want us to continue reading your objections to the Big Bang, you need to immediately provide extraordinary evidence for your doubt. As others have already noted, you have not provided such evidence. Your citations have been found not to be respecable.
    A "realization"? Is that something akin to a "hunch"? Scientists have hunches all the time, but they don't publish them. They apply the Scientific Method to them, specifically looking for evidence in the form of empirical observation or logical reasoning, then asking for others to peer-review them, then finally publishing them and allowing the entire community of scientists to weigh in.

    You appear to be here asking for a peer review, but I don't see any evidence for us to review.
    Rather than repeat yourself, you need to go deeper. Please find the evidence that supports your hypothesis.
    As other members have already told you, these are not "top scientists." Your appeal to authority (which is always a perfectly crappy way to support an argument anyway) has failed.
    Bullshit. It sounds like you're talking about one of the very "soft sciences" like linguistics, in which no one is terribly certain of his findings, but since he's built his career on them he can't afford to let them be challenged. Practitioners of the "hard sciences" have much more evidence to work from, not to mention the fact that they can perform experiments, something the soft-scientists often can't do. So in their disciplines they can afford to act like true scientists and confront dissent honestly. (Yes, "corporate science" is a big exception to this rule, because those guys aren't trying to discover the truth, but rather looking for justifications for their employer to market its products.)
    Another member has already made this comment, but it's so important that I'm going to repeat it:

    IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THE MATH, THEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
    This is not an academy and you should know that because if it were one nobody would have let you in.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    We don't expect people to come here with an armload of papers asking us to peer-review them ourselves--if only because most of us are not professional scientists and are not qualified to perform that peer review.

    We expect YOU to perform the peer review, and write us a short summary of what you learned.

    Since it appears that you don't have the qualifications to do that (you haven't done the math!), I don't know who among us feels like wasting his time doing your own work for you.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,890
    Pincho - no matter how many warnings you get about posting your garbage in science threads, the second you see something stupid in a science thread you take that as a green light to spout your drivel!

    It is clear you cannot comprehend science but you cannot even follow simple rules.:shrug:
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,423
    This is incorrect in the context of Big Bang theory specifically and may be incorrect in terms of the word "evolution". In BB, there there was no dense object of mass residing in space that "evolved" into a less dense object containing stuff. There was a moment where all of what we perceive as space, time, energy, matter, etc. was maximally compressed and then it inflated like a baloon of space and time. As space-time got larger, stuff cooled down and began clumping and interacting courtesy the laws of physics. Eventually this led to the formation of our solar system.

    I can't say that Evolution is the best word to describe change since cosmic inflation. Evolution is typically used to denote adaptation to changing environmental pressures. I am not sure how this would apply but perhaps fraggle has some linguistic insight into this.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,423
    That belongs in pseudoscience.
     
  8. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,387
    Sorry, I thought I was in "Big Bang Flaws", and I would have been on topic, I was not in the thread I thought I was in.
     
  9. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,890
    I do not recall every seeing anything that you have written that could possible be construed as on topic in a science thread.
     
  10. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,387
    I'm always on topic, I feel it is essential to a forum, and hate responding to these sorts of posts.
     
  11. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Except the topic is always Pincho Paxton, and how the rest of the world is wrong and you're right.
     
  12. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,387
    Only when I am replying to a slur on myself like now. I call it the negative science energy v's me, and I have to equal out the energy. Unfortunately 10 slurs per post is a lot of energy to counteract.
     
  13. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,885
    Motor Daddy: Please post a few examples.
    That's funny stuff right there. The record of science is that wild stories are made up, held to be true, and then later found to be just that, wild stories that are false. Should I name a few?​
    The basics of Big Bang seem to fit the observable evidence: Mainly that the observable universe has been expanding for billions of years. Steady State (Continuous Creation) was shot down when observation indicated that the universe was different in the distant past than it is today. One obvious difference: Quasars (spelling?) have not existed for circa 4-6 billion (or more) years.

    BTW: Steady State also claimed that the universe was expanding.

    Questionable aspects of the big bang.
    Extrapolation back to a singularity or an approximation to same (Id est: To when the universe was less than a second old). I do not think there is any evidence for the nature/expansion of the universe when it was hundreds/thousands of years old.

    This extreme extrapolation only seems justified because it is very difficult to come up with an explanation for expansion starting in a region as large as a solar system volume or a volume a few light years in radius.

    Inflation seems a bit ad hoc.​
    Some of the arguments among cosmologists were interesting as well as amusing. The following are the only examples I can remember.
    Big Bang was a derogatory term coined by opponents of the theory.

    Question: Where do you Continuous Creation Creaturesd get all the matter you think is being continuously created? Note that a lot had to be created. Answer: The same place you Big Bang Boys got it all at once.​

    BTW: Emotionally, I was in favor of Steady State in the era when it was a serious competitor. I was disappointed when it lost the dispute. Fred Hoyle (main advocate) continued the argument when he no longer had valid intellectual ammunition: I sympathized with him due to my emotional bias in favor of Continuous Creation.
     
  14. wlminex Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,587
    Dinosaur: Continuous 'creation' is a viable alternative if one evokes a continuous, thermodynamic, equilibrium mechanism by which matter is a 'conversion product' (via ~ E=mc^2) of a pre-existing energy-only "pre-universe". The 'observable' (i.e., mass-containng) universe 'creates' at the expense of the energetic pre-universe . . . . BTW#1 . . . giving the illusion of an expansion phenomenon . . . BTW#2 . . . . CMB is also a continuous thermal product of this ongoing process. Since the process is operative everywhere, all the time, we see a nearly isotropic CMB with only minor anisotropies. Of Course . . . all of this is IMPO only (re: James R) . . . see other threads in Alternative Theories.
     
  15. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Word salad.

    With tasteless, low-cal dressing.
     
  16. wlminex Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,587
    OFF-TOPIC . . . . Alex, "You've evidently confused me with someone who gives a damn" (<--humor here) about your opinion. Let's get back ON-TOPIC, now.
     
  17. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,106
    http://kencroswell.com/errata.html
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,646
    There aren't enough Z's and X'es and lightning bolts in that picture. Now add some Z's, X'es and lightning bolts and have some guys sign a petition and you might have something.
     
  19. peters Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    17
    The flaw in Big bang is that it sits our universe in no medium. If you can see that the medium outside our universe decayed into it at the same time as our universe grew the picture of the distribution of matter in our universe makes more sense. If it was a big explosion from the center, after 14 billion years there would be a big hole in the center which there isn't. To identify the medium all you have to do is identify what would produce both empty space and matter energy. hint: look at GR's end.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  20. wlminex Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,587
    peters: Excellent points!!
     
  21. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,493
    I've heard there's a void that's a billion light years across. Sounds like a big hole to me. Sense our universe extends farther than than we can see in every direction, it might be difficult to detremine where the center is. Just maybe that void for all I know.
     
  22. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    This simply shows that peters has no understanding of the BB. There was no big explosion at the center.

    All of space, at every point, expands from every other point. There is no center, and there was no 'explosion'.
     
  23. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,152
    And I would add that the demand for a medium - made by peters, by the OP, and by almost daily commentary here or on similar sites - is an arcane idea obsoleted by Michelson-Morley and all the other rehashing of that proof that ensued afterwards.

    Having said that, any drive-by commentator who would address the fabric of spacetime in the way it actually behaves, relativistically, preserving lightspeed, twisting the observed frame in a 3D rotation, conserving mass, energy and momentum, etc., would be sight for sore eyes.

    And as AlexG has frequently remarked, the expansion is everywhere, not an explosion from a center with a hole.
     

Share This Page