Bhagawad Git and Morals: for the ones suffering

Good people like us have grown up with the belief system which includes things like lying is bad, one must always speak the truth etc etc. I want to know what exactly the is the "right" thing to do when one is suffering? Just because we have grown up with this belief that 'truth is good and lying is bad', may not necessarily mean that it is correct. May be it is wrong! Shouldn’t we all as intelligent human beings, question our beliefs if they simply don’t work? I write this as I am going through a bad phase right now: of being victimized and bullied at work by 4 co-workers…so much so that I have been in pain and depression for over two years and am being forced to leave my job just like scores of other victims of irrational, unfair bullying at workplace. The victims will be fired or they will quit, we all know that. I think I have suffered: as I refused to lie and because I was honest. I would like to know what would God want me to do in a situation like this. Imagine a scenarios, for example, where a morally right ‘victim’ lies….cooks up stories about these 4 psychopaths….complains to his useless manager that these 2 psychopaths were ill mouthing “her”…..and every time they abuse the victim..he abuses them BACK!….? And don’t get me wrong here…..and don’t give the reasoning “why should we stoop to their level….” They are stepping all over the victim remember? The victim will do this just ‘once’….and not to ‘everyone’ but JUST to these bullies who are harassing him….not out of vengance but only to save himself from this unfair intolerable humiliation the victim has been facing. By doing this the victim will not turn into a devil overnight…..he will still continue to be the nice person he is….its just that he will take the power in her hands…the power to “not be humiliated”.

Is there anyone around here who has read any religious scripture like the Bible of the Bahgavad Gita? What is the right thing to do? We are not dealing with normal people here, we are dealing with evil psychopaths at work… no different than rapists….its just that they rape our minds….of peace and dignity.

Even in Mahabharata and Ramayana…. God “faught” the battle! They did not take it lying down…..Draupadi was avenged….and so was Sita.

 

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Firstly Dove, I am sorry to here about the difficulties you are having. There are several points I would make, not all necessarily connected.
1) If you have already made plans to leave I think that is excellent. Some years ago I found myself in a similar position to yourself. Leaving transformed my life. It allowed me to return to normality.
2) There are ways of dealing with the bullies without resorting to their tactics. Without knowing the details of your own situation (and I understand you might be uncomfortable sharing those with us) it is impossible to suggest how this could have been done in your situation.
3) I suspect that the individuals are not, as you have described them, 'evil psychopaths'. I have no doubt they seem that way to you, yet they almost certainly have friends, family, lovers, partners with whom they are seen as 'good people'. It can be easier to deal with if we recognise this valid, though unpalatable truth.
4) This final point is the most difficult to accept. [I expect a host of posts decrying me as heartless and evil for even putting it forward.] Bullying, of the mental kind, requires a degree of complicity by the victim. If these people are so despicable, how can their verbal abuse have any significance for you. You choose to be effected by it. Choose not to.

For some obscure reason I was reminded of Senator Edmund Muskie's unsuccessful campaign to be the Democratic Party's Presidential candidate in 1972. The campaign faltered and collapsed when Muskie, responding publicly to newspaper articles claiming his wife had a drinking problem, broke down and cried.
Former British Prime Minister Harold MacMillan was asked at the time how he would have responded if his wife had been accused of the same. "Why, I should have said 'If you think she drinks, you should see her mother.' "
Therein lies the difference between victim and victor.

 

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Thanks for your reply Ophiolite:

The facts are I ahvent even got a new job yet. I dont how long it will take to get a new job. I am still stuck with this old job...with the bullies bullying me everyday. Like the stress of looking for ajob is not enough.

Secondly, I disagree with you in not calling them "evil psycopaths". They are going out of their way to see me fired. They have a 'history' of being unfriendly, uncooperative and insecure. Thye take pleasure in my pain. They are pathological bulliues.

Thirdly, I dont think saying that they too have people who love them is a good argumnt. There are rapist and serial killers whose mothers adore them. Does that prove anything?

 

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Dove, if one is hungry and thirsty, should they curse the hunger and thirst, or go find food and water?

If one is cold and wet, should they curse the cold and the rain, or seek warm, dry shelter?

If one is afraid of the dark, should they curse the darkness or light a candle?

Your situation is, of course, intolerable. As I read your account, you have little or no choice but to leave the job and seek another. Even if you should find a "solution" thru legal means, or even from the manager(s), it probably won't stop the bullies from "getting you" when the manager isn't watching. You have no choice ...you must leave.

I don't know where you are or what the job market is like, but if you stay there, you'll likely turn into something that you don't like or want to be. Get out now!

Baron Max

 

Thanks Baron, I will get out. But do you know how difficult it is find jobs these days? And while I look for a job, they continueto bully me.
>I am leaving the job because of them.
> Yet they continue to bully.
> Very Very unfair.
Brings me back to my original question.

 

Can you be more precise as to how they bully you? We might be able to offer a temporary, or even a permanent solution.
For once I am in agreement with the Baron - get out. But, yes, you have to find something else first. Surely, you have friends, relatives, neighbours who might be able to help. Most jobs are not obtained through adverts, but through contacts. Let people know you are looking.
Good luck.

 

Thanks Ophiolite. By the way...did you read my previous post adressed to you?

It would be great if you could offer me a temp/permamnt solution....but are you talking wrt stopping bullying.....or leaving and getting out of this job?

Regarding wasy in which they bully me...well like I posted in another forum "I could explain to you....but the exact details of my incident are not imporatn as there are 100ds of employees in the US who are abused and harassed at work. It is a well known phenomemon called "work place bullying" or "mobbing". It efects victims and their families.All go through severs menatl and physical pain, some a re driven to commit suicide. In every case (98%) the victim is fired. Thats how his misery ends. Even when they leave their hellish job, the psycological impat continues and takes them years to heal.....provided such bullying doesnot repeat in another job. They suffer from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stres Disorder). Think of all the ways in which people can create a toxic, hostile work environment: all that encompasees what these bullies are saying and doing to me.


I want to know, if I play the same tricks as the bullies are playing with me (which I admit are wrong).....may be I will be able to survive....at least survive till I find another new job.....bring me back to my original question....Is Morality subjective.....if I am doing it for "self-defence"....may be ot is not wrong after all?

 

when your boss is in the room... you say... "SIR.. (very loud).. i wish to point a problem here in the office... (very loud..)

and when you speak to him you speak in low volume... but make a crazy face..

say...
'I have been harrased... bullied.. picked on... and while i am a calm and civilized man.. i promise you... it is going to end.. one way or another..(big eyes)...
and it is upto you... to decide how it will be resolved...

either you will stop it... by any means you have.. or i will.

and let me tell you.. after four years.. i cannot promise you what will happen.. but i can assure you.... those responsible will get their rewards..
just as the employer who allows such behavior shall get theirs..."

"i have a lawyer, and i know my rights... your management, do something about it."

and then hand him a calm written statement of your problems... and make sure it is notrized.. and that a co-worker witnesses you handing to them.


in this way... you are a calm reasonable victum, who is making real claims, and that management can do something about it, or face litigation, or worse...

you might go crazy.

-MT

 

Thanks MT. But as many victims will tell you "laws" are made for the civilized people only. Litigation is a wate of vitimes time and money. " THEY" always win in the end.

 

No body has answered my Question!! What does God want me to do??

 

God wants you to be strong.. that looking apon you... God can say.. there is my son or daughter.. strong are they... look how they prosper..

with faith in the Lord, and knowing what is right.. you cannot fail..

you must have really big balls.. or ovaries.. and if you dont, fake it.

find a lawyer... and ask him if there is a case... there maybe..

hide a camera... or get access to video survalence... something, that can prove the case.

or find the other co--workers past and present that have this problem.

as a group you cannot be ignored.

whatever you do... dont slink away and hide...

God doesnt want us to be weak... it does not serve us well.

its simple..

if it were me... id put sugar in all of their gas tanks...

or if i was really mad... and if management didnt care... id probubly burn the fucking place to the ground.

but thats just me,, i dont advise it... it requires to much planning.. and the risk is to high that someone other than those you hate will suffer.

flat tires... or screaming real loud when ever they bother you.... if your a girl.

you need to set it up so that they think your nuts.. and while they cant prove anything... they will have reason to leave you alone.

there are a million things you can do to stop it...

and only one easy way out... that quiting and hiding.

i would get the lawyer.. first.. establish a written record of harrasment... with outsiders..
find what evidense you can..
and try for court.. drag everyone of those fuckers into court, even if its just for one day...

and if they fuck with you.. pay some gang member to burn their cars.

but like i said.. im crazy... and i dont advise such crazy action.

the law is supposed to protect people.... but you must be prepared too be very loud.

-MT

 

dove:
greetings!
what does god want you to do? in the hindu system, to know yourself! this may sound odd but it is also oddly related to your struggle. the battle you mention is the allegorical struggle with in yourself. your fight is not with the world outside as the exteranl is merely a reflections of your internal process

as ophiolite said there is a degree of complicity in interactions of this nature. you are giving them your power in some way maybe by fighting for it. i dont know, that will depend on your path and how you walk it.
again what does god want you to do?
in the field be the knower of the field.
know yourself! what is it that you want to do? how do you want to resolve this situation? you have the answers to these questions.

do not what you think will satisfy god, nor what will satisfy your colleagues or your boss, ask what is right for you? that is what you have to do.

is it right to question your beliefs? what do you think? is it right to lie or tell the truth? what do you think? that is what is important.

there is something which i personally use as a measure of goodness for my interactions.

do unto others what you will have others do to you.
when the karmic wheel rolls back your way it brings with it what you have attached to it, and rhis is why you reap what you sow.


this is quite a rushed response as i do not have much time right now, my geuss is it is not what you wanted but i am sure there is in it, a hint of what you need.

 

and if they throw feces at you... throw it back.

'do unto others as they are doing unto you... and ask them to treat you better.'

'do unto others as your have them do unto you..' is for friends, family and strangers..

not enemies who terrorize you.

-MT

 

Thanks Ellion.

You said....."when the karmic wheel rolls back".....for who does it roll back? In my experinece it rolls back only for the vitim.....not for the perpetrator.

 

Ophiolite:

Here are the details og my bullying since you wnated to know:

Ok here goes:

When I was hired, during my orientation i overherad them saying....look they hired a pathtic loser, so uncompetititve and lame. I dont now why they sais that as I didnt even know their names then.

During the question answer setion at the end of my orientation, when I was alone with Bullu #1, I asked some questions about the comany: He replied witha grunt...WHatt??. He moved away, talking to Bully #3.."How can some people be so dumb". Rember, it was my very day of work.

Coming weeks, removed/hid the files from my table, the ones I was incharge of look at. As a result, the work did not get done. Boss got mad. Asked why the work was not done. I replied as I did not receive any files......by then, they had quitwly put the files back on my table. This is just one incident by the way.

Tore pages from my files. Complained to the boss.

My personal items, food/stationary were dropped on the floor.

Office parties were organised by our section (which by the way consist of just me and these 4 bullies) I was not even told about them, and then the word was spread that I was anti-social....that I said that "I am too good for your parties". Absolute lie again. Now other people think I am arrogant.

Was nicknamed "looney-rat".....at lunch time in cafetaria, in the parking lot was called this name when no one was listening.

Always find garbage round my car. (Once I saw one of them do it, but is it safe to assume they did it everytime?)

We work as a team. (supposed to work as a team). My idea was stolen, and one of them claimed it was hers, she got a pat on the back for it.

Boss gave some work through one of the bullies, thats how it works in the office, first it goes from my boss to the bully #1, then he corercts it and gives it to me, and then I take care of it and pass it on to Bully #2 and so on. Bully #1 never gave it to me! I asked he said...no no its all taken care of.....Then Bully #2 compained to boss sayingt hat I was slacking and did not do my work on time. Boss thinks I am a slacker, he believes that Bully#1 indeed gave me his report on time....but I held it up and was slacking and did not pass it on to Bully #2....due to which the project suffered.

I had a meeting with Bully #1 in private, asked, please tll me whats is the problem, why did you not give me the files on time? To my shock, both bully#1 and Bully #2 (who is a women) went to the managembt and complained that I am an agressive person and used foul language against them! Which was absolutely a lie. What proof could I give? They had each other as witnesses. Bully #2 was crying so got all the sympathy of thr managemnst. Also other peeople who saw her running through the hallway crying, thought I did soemthing horrible to her.


I asked boss to help. Said he doesnt want to intefere as I am just as bitchy as the other women.

I asked boss to transfer to the neighburng department, sqaurly refused.

I asked boss to change my cubicle, squarly refused.

I asked mangemnt for help, squarly refused giving the argument that "I am at afult". This happened a few days after Buly #1 and Bully 2 (went crying through the hallways to upper mangamnet.


Bully #3 told a married'd colegues wife (who also works in my office) that I am hitting on her husbad. She too has joined the band wagon.

I can go on and on, but these just a "few" that I can think of.....may tell you more later if inetersted.

 

you are showing concern for other people and their karma. what is returned to other people is useless for you in determining your way. seek to know your own path. what do you want your karma to return to you?

if by asking why does it not return to other people you are saying i do not see karma working. then questions of this nature are no use to you, neither is this system

if by asking why does it not return to other people, you are saying i want other people to suffer. you are attaching suffering to the wheel and it is bringing it back to you.

 

Ellion please dont scare me. I am not bad person. I have been a very pure and good human being all through this. I have been vitimiksed to the brink of insanity and depression.Why will the karmic wheel back fire on me. It shouldn't.I need help.Or else I will have to help myself, is that too much to ask for?

 

Hello Dove,

Those "bullies" bullying you represents something within you, a thought within you that has caused that happen. Everything happening to you is a reminder of your own beliefs, your own thoughts, just as in a dream. The thought is probably a deep rooted one, that can be traced back to your childhood.

Conditions (unless physical) do not cause happiness nor distress. An example of this is two people go on a rollcoaster ride, one of them comes out thrilled and happy, and the other comes out fearful and frightened, even though the two people experienced basically the exact samething their happiness and distress was different. This is an example of how it's your own self that causes your happiness and distress.

Karma will always accumulate if you do anything (whether in the mode of goodness, passion, or ignorance) with attachment thinking of the results or fruits of your action. However, no karma can be accumulated if you go beyond the modes of material nature, and act with no attachment, just as an innocent child behaves (that's why Jesus says become like a child).

So what does God want you to do? Some will say he wants you to fight back, others will say he wants you to do nothing, etc....I will say that since you have many desires to fulfill you should detach from the outcome of results, and then focus only on what you desire happening, uncontaminated by negative thoughts. Focusing only on what you desire happening, negative thoughts, emotions, and concepts will elude you, and you will be happy. Do not worry or anticipate the outcome of events, the only thing that truly matters is your happiness, find happiness inside and the world outside shall change as just the world within changes.

 

Krishna... would'nt stand for it.. why should you?

why dont you throw it back... call them pathetic losers... alot.

harrass them, exactly as the have harassed you...

and then see if the boss cares.

if your going to quit anyway... who cares...

-MT

 

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