Beheading in the Name of Islam

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sandy, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    No, brainiac: I belabor under the factual notion that modernism means: not giving women clitorectomies, not forcing women to wear bed sheets out in public, not beheading people, ACTUALLY EDUCATING YOUR POPULATION in ideas contrary to the state-supported religion, giving your people freedom of religion, investing in industrial infrastructure... did I mention not beheading people?

    Funny... Japan, Vietnam, Russia (even), Korea, Australia, China, Western Europe... they aren't exactly "America" (as you so desperately want to make us believe), and yet they don't have nearly as many issues with beheadings, gender subjugation, xenophobia, and vaginal-mangling as Islamic nations do.

    Must be America's fault. We've brain-washed all those "other guys" into being too western, thus making Islam look bad.

    ~String
     
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  3. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    Great, you make my point for me: Vietnam and Iran are even MORE alike, then. So.... um... why hasn't Iran given the west the ol' one-two and actually built a factory or Allah forbid, actually attracted investors.

    Must be all those beheadings you keep trying to distract us away from!

    ~String
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825

    Probably because they were all allowed to form their own governments, except China, which does have issues, but nevertheless has been allowed to find its own way.
     
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  7. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    16,931
    The implementing of free market economy, that is a totally American,
    Western Ideas, and;

    Vietnamese American Achievement :: Vietnam Investment Group under ...
    There is a conference on alternative investments in Vietnam scheduled in Ho Chi Minh City on September 11 - 22. I encourage everyone who is interested in ...
    http://vietamreview.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/8/17/3164928.html

    Good Morning, Vietnam
    The deal is the largest American investment in Vietnam ever by a non-oil company. Intel initially will spend $300 million for a test-and-assembly plant that ...
    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_11/b3975068.htm

    As Foreign Investment Rises, Vietnam Wants the U.S. Back - New ...
    As Foreign Investment Rises, Vietnam Wants the U.S. Back ... At a meeting in November with a delegation of American Senators, Vietnamese officials ...
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DA1230F935A15751C1A964958260&sec=&spon=

    » Vietnam Growing at Exceptional Rate… American Investors Looking ...
    American Investors Looking for Good Entry Point. Vietnam stocks have soared 25% since ... In total, foreign investment in Vietnam jumped by 49% in 2006. ...
    http://www.moneymorning.com/2007/10...ican-investors-looking-for-good-entry-point /

    Vietnam isn't following the Islamic model, of a eye for a eye, never forget, forgive, and look where it is getting them, they are using Free market economy, and getting help from American Investors, and becoming a leader in the world economy, can th esame be said for the islamic model?

    And guess what? we have normalized relations with then to;

    Investment climate and foreign investment in Vietnam
    affiliates in Vietnam without concluding business deals. In 1995, after the embargo lifting, American investment. grew to $220 million. ...
    http://www.springerlink.com/index/C71W8H0N44XTH2K8.pdf

    Islam still hasn't figured it out.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Nope, must be the fact that since 1952, after a 25 year reign under an autocrat who systematically decimated the liberals, followed by an eight year war manipulated and enforced upon them, a fundamentalist government took power.

    Regardless, Iranians in general are not as backward as you make them out to be and as their constant attempts to return to secularism since 1906 show, they will be stabilised if the US just stays away and stops interfering either by threat, bullying or destabilising countries on either side, not to mention funding extremists in the country.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Iran
     
  9. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    No... Iran has been allowed to "find it's own way" for more than 20 years now, and Vietnam (20 years into their great endeavor) has had no issue industrializing and all THAT without any cushy oil revenue to help invest in the economy.

    Could it be... NO... it can't be...

    But maybe it's the obvious fact: Islam stifles development as noted by other non-Islamic (also, non-Christian) nation's ease in attracting investors and growing the economy. Also, a true meritocracy in running governmental affairs helps, in lieu of nepotism & clan favoritism as is the norm in the Islamic world.
     
  10. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931

    And if your Islamic, Moslem, Jihadi, terrorist brothers would get out of the way the same thing would happen in Iraq.

    We stayed in some of those country after the war, and in the end we let them choose their own path, and the same thing will happen in Iraq if we see it through.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Whatever, the United States has done more damage in the ME and rest of the world and continues to this date.

    Perhaps we need an era without the US to ascertain who is right.
     
  12. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    So... the 9+ million dead from the Vietnamese war, the cost of reunification, the "house cleaning" by Ho Chi Minh that ended half a million lives, that pesky embargo, criminalization of American investment/trade and political strong-arming to force other nations/corporations to avoid Vietnam hasn't seemed to hurt them in much the same way is it has the Iranians... oh, and no oil revenue to help them out either.

    Puzzling.

    Must be America's fault.

    ~String
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Don't forget the lack of US intervention in the period of progress.
     
  14. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    Sure SAM, because that's the point.

    As always, you're attempts to muddy the waters with your moral soap-boxing hasn't answered the point: why, OH WHY, after all these decades have other American-destroyed nations done fine... while Muslim ones have not.

    Yes, yes... America... intervention... bombings... blah blah blah. I'll be the first to say this: the US needs to pull the hell out of the ME and let everyone there just see how happy and glorious it would be without a DIME of American money coming in. But... again, that's just my wishful thinking and it doesn't really address the elephant in the room, WHICH ELEPHANT, you (as usual) avoid with any substance and instead keep attempting to distract with: poor Islamic nations... BIG BAD AMERICA.

    But... erm... what about Vietnam?
     
  15. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    Really? Hmmm.... and the embargo.

    So, what sort of "intervention" has the USA done in Iran (that wasn't done in Vietnam) that stifled their progress and/or industrial investment from other countries?

    It couldn't be the backward regime, oppression of women and... OH, the beheadings.... could it?

    ~String
     
  16. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    You forgot the bombings that destroyed a lot of Vietnam, Iran hasn't had one stitch of infrastructure damage, and yet it can get it economy off the ground.
     
  17. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    Indeed. I forgot. My bad.

    ~String
     
  18. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    SpAM, there was a lot of American interference, the embargo for one, plus a war with China, and Cambodia, American business were investing in Vietnam through third party countries, long before the embargo was lifted, and once it was lifted, Katy Bar the Door, Great for the Vietnams People, the Dam war is over a long time, its just great for them!!!
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    So if US had NOT invaded Iraq, would Nick Berg have been beheaded?

    I did not receive a response to this.
     
  20. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    MOD HAT

    Buffalo Roam, this is the only warning you will get, Any more posts refering to SAM as "SpAM" will be deleted. It is unaceptable to change a posters name in order to insult them and trash there argument. Atack the argument, not the person
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    To be honest, I'm guilty of that too.

    In future I'll watch it.
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    That's a bit silly.

    That's even sillier. They fought an eight year war with Iraq.

    I do agree with the point about the influence of Islam, as a religion. Vietnam is not so afflicted, and that is a great advantage. But Vietnam has neither recovered so well, nor been as abused compared with Iran, as seems assumed here. And it has large advantages.

    For one, its geographical circumstances are much different. Vietnam is fertile, has major ports and rivers and so forth. It's coastline and farmland, not dry cold mountains that cost a fortune to connect with roads. You can't bomb an ocean into rubble.

    For another, the lack of oil revenue is an advantage in development. Oil economies almost always suck.
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,959
    String, even if we set S.A.M. aside for the moment, I want to run an idea past you. I would like you to consider a certain phrase to begin with:

    • "All things being equal ...."​

    All things being equal, you and many other people who resent the constant comparisons of American actions to contextualize an indictment of something taking place "in the name of Islam" would have a point that it's just a silly distraction. But by our own standard here in the United States, we're supposed to be the good guys. What's that? So, in their own standard, are they? Well, are any of them the world's leading superpower? Economic? Military? Have they had a chance to establish that first degree of freedom? Remember that our "freedom", hard-won from Britain, was not really "freedom" at all. We had to put everything we'd won on the line in order to find a new degree of "freedom". Where, by comparison, are "they"?

    All things being equal, sir, it would indeed seem silly to constantly remind of American sins. But all things are not equal, and I really do wonder about arguments that seem to demand we pretend otherwise.

    For instance, to address your points in #126:

    • We, the People of the United States of America, sponsored crimes against humanity in order to meddle in Iranian affairs. They are not yet twenty years out of that war.

    • As to the stifling effect of Islam, please refer to post #79; if we wish to consider issues beyond Iran's borders, I generally recommend Yvonne Haddad's 1982 article for The Link, "The Islamic Alternative".​
     

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