Battlestar Galactica: Season Finale

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by superstring01, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    The last episode I saw (episode 10) was that they found Earth and landed on it. But all they found was debris.
    I somehow thought you guys were talking about later episodes..
     
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  3. superstring01 Moderator

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  5. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    No. I'd say that the colonials/cylons were Cro-magnon while the natives were Neanderthals.
    What did you want, subtitles and an invented language? Every Scifi show has the character's speaking english. Of course, on the other hand, is the idea that the colonials spoke English any less likely than humans evolving on multiple planets?
    Indeed. It's a good thing Starbuck jumped so far, or Cavil might have found "earth 2" and wiped up out. Especially given the fact that the colonials/cylons on earth 2 had given up all the technology. They'd have been defenseless.

    Of course, the jump wasn't really random, as the coordinates came from the Watchtower. Also consider that Cavil had some part of the resurrection program downloaded before the chief went nuts, so they've got a head start there. Certainly room for a sequel with the cylons finally finding earth 2....

    Here's a question. Recalling the fact that Boomer jumping from within or even to close to Gallactica would cause a spacial disruption that would tear Galactica apart; why wasn't the basestar damaged when Galactica (much larger than Boomer's little ship) jumped with part of the ship actually stuck in the basestar? That should have torn the basestar apart!
    That wasn't exactly them, of course, it was the angels that appeared as them. I must say, however, that Caprica Six makes one hell of an angel. She spent most of her time with Baltar fucking! Perhaps her character was inspired by this song:
    Undercover angel, midnight fantasy,
    I never had a dream that made sweet love to me.
    Undercover angel, answer to my prayer,
    You made me know that there's a love for me out there.

    Somewhere. Yeah, somewhere.

    Heavenly surrender, sweet afterglow (undercover),
    I'm giving up my heart to you, now angel don't go.
    She said, "Go find the right one, love her and then (undercover),
    When you look into her eyes you'll see me again."

    I said, "What?" She said, "Ooh-ooh-ooh, whee."
    I said, "All right!" She said, "Love me, love me, love me!"
    Adama called it earth, as I recall. As to the harbinger of death, perhaps they were refering to the fact that humanity ceased to exist following Starbuck's actions since the human's and cylons on "earth 2" interbreed and they even (probably) interbreed with the natives. Thus, mankind as a seperate species ceased to exist and only the hybrid form is now extant. The cylons, however, continue to exist both in the form of Cavil's faction and the toasters.
    They are certainly those angels. Remember the bit were one of them referred to God and the other said, "You know he doesn't like to be called that".
    Thinking about Starbuck, the closest thing I can come up with would be Jesus. She died. Was resurrected. Hung around for a while to finish her job. And then disappeared (back to "heaven", or "the other side".)
    I think we can put off the earth not being in an iceage in the show as the same as them speaking English. Poetic licence to make it to be clear that this was, in fact, earth. Not just some planet called earth, but our earth.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
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  7. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    They found earth but it was radio active, then they found this planet and decided to call it earth. As earth was a myth a point of destination to them more then it was a actual planet.
    (So you could say there are 2 earths).

    I find it a pitty that boomer was killed. She got shot afther she shot adama (they never explainend boomers amnesia and programmend shooting of adama by the way, I was sure they would afther Ellens and Cavils conversation abouth whiping the final 5 memories)
    Annyway she got killed ones for something that was not entirely her fault it would have been nice for her to get away this time especially because she disliked cylons and humans as much as tyrol did. Afther she got killed I tought Tyrol would join anders on his voyage to the sun in his dream house.

    ... then again I don't think the episode would gave been halve as good if I wrote it
     
  8. superstring01 Moderator

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    I'm not talking about the language they speak. I'm talking about all the cultural idiosyncrasies that were used (names, concepts, letters). I can except the need for a "universal translator" filter that we have to accept (as in: if they were speaking "Colonial" we should just see them in English for production's sake), but very VERY English concepts were utilized. This society would look a bit more alien.

    And that ain't my biggest beef. I can just excuse all that as: "God [or "It" or whatever] guided them along a cultural development path ONCE and just did it again."

    But after 150,000 years all those names would be lost and where did they get modern domesticated dogs and cats? So many things are annoying.

    I'll admit: The ending was memorable though. It's sort of sad-ish to think that an entire civilization was lost to the ages.

    I re-watched it again last night. The Colony was breaking up. There was no way the information survived and with no base star to re-transmit it to, it surely went down into the singularity. Though there is the possibility of a Raider with FTL escaping with said information and getting away.

    Also, in their last jump they didn't travel millions of light years (by my best guess, in about 80+ jumps through the series the maximum jump is probably between 10k & 15k LY). In the end, though, they were over a million light years from the Twelve Colonies (their original starting place). If we look here: Atlas of the Universe: Local Group, there are a lot of galaxies over a million LY away. Though, to be fair, if it were over "2 million LY" he would have probably said, "Over 2 million lightyears away." So, let's assume less than 2 more than 1. That gives us: Leo T, Phoenix Dwarf & NGC 6822. An educated guess puts it at NGC 6822 since it's still forming new stars.

    In the end, it was ridiculous gamble to make. Guessing that they only jumped within 20k LY, there was plenty of time for the EVIL Cylons to grow exponentially and seek them out within 150k years. Though, 25 billion stars are a lot to sift though. But given enough technology and effort, it could be done. And knowing Cavil's drive, it's one he would have undertaken.

    I thought the same thing, then I just ascribed it to better engineering. The Colony wasn't totally obliterated by more than six nukes (though the nukes did begin its slow decay and fall into the singularity). It's made of some tough shit. Plus, the Battlestar Galactica was getting a bit old and worn. If it was in the beginning, I'm willing to bet that Boomer jumping away would have not done such dammage.

    I agree. She's a metaphor (allegory?) for Christ. Much of this story is a commentary on our contemporary ordeals. Christianity included.

    I agree. They didn't want [dumb] people looking at the planet and saying, "What? There's an almost Earth out there....?" But the techno-snob in me says they should have humored the smarter elements of society.

    ~String
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  9. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    Awesome. A reconceptualized "Galactica 1980." Eh, maybe not.
     
  10. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Agreed. But, even though they didn't say it, there may have been more to their abandonment of their high tech than the simple idea of breaking the cycle. Specifically:
    Exactly. Now, how would Cavil search for the colonials/rebel cylons? Would he land on and search every habitable planet in the universe? No, that would be impossible. He'd look for signs of technology. Jump into a system, listen for radio emmisions. Search for ships. Perhaps FTL leaves some kind of signature. Basically, by abandoning their technological civilization, the colonials and cylons on earth were making themselves invisible to Cavil and the other Cylons.
    I agree that Galatica 1980 was horrible, but once upon a time the idea of BattleStar Galactica being remade seemed absurd as well. Who'd have thought that the campy, cheesy show from the seventies (although I loved it at the time: I was 12) could be remade as a serious dramatic series that redefined SciFi television and actually offered serious commentary on contempory America? So many issues were addressed. Abortion. Torture. Terrorism. Nuclear war. Even religion, and the nature of identity. They hit just about every hot button issue there is and did so in a serious manner that made you think about things.

    Having done all that, what greater challenge remains than redeeming Galactica 1980?
     
  11. Mickmeister Registered Senior Member

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    812
    Here are the big problems I saw with the ending.

    1) They supposedly jumped 1 million light years to earth. That would mean they would have jumped from another galaxy, not the Milky Way. There are a few small galaxies within a few hundred thousand light years of the Milky Way, but there are none within 1 million light years. The milky way is 10,000 LY from top to bottom and 100,000 LY across. The next one if M31 at nearly 3 million light years.

    2) The technology was supposedly destroyed to start over. The people already had all of the knowledge to start rebuilding and advance the current humans on earth very quickly, especially ones like Baltar. Adama already said that he wanted to build a cabin. That was already centuries ahead of the humans already inhabiting earth.

    3) How did the Battlestar withstand all of that beating it took from the mothership when it could barely withstand a jump?

    4) How did the Battlestar jump a million light years? We already calculated in another forum that it could not jump more than 1,500 light years through different clues they gave. And, even when it jumped this far, how did they get the other ships to earth?

    5) Why did they not take the records with them so that humanity would know what happened and not repeat it again like they showed at the very last scene? They should have known from past experience that all they would do is postpone the events from reoccurring if future generations did not know what happened before.

    6) When the raptors jumped out of Galactica's shuttle bay, it damaged the bay, but it didn't do nearly the damage with all those ships jumping at once, that Boomer did when she jumped out with the little girl.

    7) Where did all those nukes come from on the raptors? Galactica only had the nukes they showed when it was getting ready to fire them at the eye of Jupiter.
     
  12. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

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    So I wasn't the only one who thought the Finale (like much of the past season) was boring crap?

    Nice Q's Mickmeister.

    The one that struck me was this: how was it that the Cylon thing-a-mah-jig purply ship was totally smoked by 6 or 8 weeny missiles shot from the one Raptor that was banged up? I mean, come on....
     
  13. Gustav Banned Banned

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    turns out the fucks settled on the migratory path of wildebeests
    the carnage was horrendous
    poor hera
    poor bwanas
    all roadkill

    amen
     
  14. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    I was kidding. Actually they already did it, in part. The human form cylons? Galactica 1980 had one first. There was also an episode about Starbuck ("Return of Starbuck") being stranded on a desolate planet that they adapted for the reimagines series (where Kara Thrace crashes and pilots a similarly crashed cylon raider back to the fleet).
     
  15. superstring01 Moderator

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    This questions was already answered (by me) earlier. I rewatched the finale again. He doesn't say that the final jump was over a million LY but that life on Earth had developed over a million LY from Cobol. Their last jump was much smaller. More than likely less than 20,000 LY (look at one of my earlier posts for my estimates).

    I agree with this.

    Also a good point.

    See previous post.

    This also bothered me. I can't believe that 30,000+ people all agreed to give up their life. That's rubbish.

    I thought it should have blown off the entire pylon as well.

    That was never indicated. Also, the Base Star has nukes.

    ~String
     
  16. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, but civilization requires a critical mass, a certain population density to survive. Sure, Adama had the knowledge to build a cabin and knew a lot of things the stone age humans didn't. Did he pass that information on? Doubtful. He was living by himself in the middle of nowhere. And suppose some couple, say Baltar and Caprica Six did have children and try to pass on some of their knowledge. What use would subsistence farmers have for particle physics?

    Without a civilization and all its trappings, the advanced knowledge of the colonials and the cylons would be lost within a few generations. Had they built a city and concentrated their efforts they could have maintained their knowledge and technology, but scattering them all over the earth ensured they would lose it. Why did they do it? See my post above, in short, it was the best way to ensure that Cavil would never find them again.
    I would guess that when a ship jumps, every part of it is subjected to enourmous stress. So any weak point is likely to give out. But when a ship is attacked with missiles, even a huge barrage of missiles, only the points of impact are stressed and a BattleStar is, no doubt, made specifically to endure such abuse. (as opposed to the abuse inflicted by jumping all the way across the galaxy)
    What kind of records? Clearly, had they maintained their high tech civilization they would have had access to all of their computer records. But, when they chose to "break the cycle", they gave up all that. If nothing else, it bought mankind 150,000 years. On a human scale, that's one fuck of a long time.
    That was the best episode of Galactica 1980. It was also made into a movie (Enemy Mine).
     
  17. Tristan Leave your World Behind Valued Senior Member

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    Everyone here keeps on talking about how "if Cavil finds them again...".

    Did I miss something? Because I'm pretty sure Cavil got wacked when fighting broke out in the control room. More specifically, he put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger... and if we remember, they cant resurrect anymore.

    Cavil is definitely dead, along with the Cylon colony. There's no doubt in my mind about that.
     
  18. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    What ?
     
  19. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    There are many Cavils. Yes, the one on Galactica killed himself. Perhaps all the Cavils on the colony are dead. But there are almost certainly more of them out there. How many cylons, for instance, are there on the former 12 colony worlds? If and/or when they find that the cylon colony has been destroyed, they're going to be really pissed off and probably come looking for the colonials and rebel cylons.
    From about 150,000 years ago until about 35,000 years ago Europe was dominated by a species known as Neanderthals. They actually had a larger brain than modern humans, brow ridges, and were more muscular. Then, suddenly, anatomically modern humans appeared in Europe (called Cro-magnon, they're basically the same as us) and the Neanderthals died out. The first anatomically modern humans are believed to have evolved at about the same time as the Neanderthals, but didn't arrive in Europe until much later.

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    So, in the BSG universe we have the Neanderthals happily doing their thing until the colonials/cylons show up about 150,000 years ago. They co-exist for a while (the early colonials probably going out of their way to not interfere with the Neanderthals). But eventually the more advanced humans forget "the prime directive" and wipe out the Neanderthals.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2009
  20. superstring01 Moderator

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    Indeed. We know that they didn't destroy a single Base Star during the battle and that there were AT LEAST five more out there (and, arguably many more). Also, there are the Cavils on the 12 Colonies as you mentioned as well as the others that would definitely be on New Caprica and probably on Cobol.

    ~String
     
  21. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Question: could Slick (the piano guy) have been god?
     
  22. Fafnir665 You just got served. Registered Senior Member

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    I think I know the problem here.

    This is a piece of FICTION and not a historical reenactment of the actual origin of the human race. Most likely "humans" did not travel here on spaceships and interbreed with native life to create a hybrid that evolved into us.
     
  23. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    It's possible, I suppose. I had assumed it was Starbuck's father. Of course if it was God and Starbuck's father, the Jesus analogy would be complete!
     

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