Bashing republican\democrats thread

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ElectricFetus, Mar 24, 2003.

  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,508
    Ok i posted this near the end of the thread but for those who read this here i go again

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    Politics is getting cloged up again with "Bush\republican suck, no the democrates suck" threads so i have resurected this sticky and from now on i am dumping all these types of threads here. If a thread is about half decent posts and half of this type then i will split it but if its just a few posts in a thread then i will just delete them (sorry i dont have unlimited time to split a thread, select a few posts and then merge it with this one).

    If thats the only point of your thread then PLEASE do me a favor a just post it here
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2005
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  3. otheadp Banned Banned

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    Everything about Bush & Kerry Bashing, Thread!

    i've posted this in 2 threads already but people haven't noticed or conveniently ignored it.

    so here it is: Vietnam veterans who fought along side Kerry condemn him as a liar, unfit to lead, when the tough gets going him crawling under a rock, etc. etc.

    make sure that you read the titles of who the speakers are.

    maybe Kerry shouldn't have opened that Pandora's box... waving around his Vietnam service is not such a good idea if his service was a sham.

    this video is a few days old. but give it a week or 2 and it'll reach the mainstream.
    do you think Hanoi John's Vietnam record will be a liability or an asset?

    i think this ad was run on CNN or other TV networks his ratings would drop by a coupla points at least. let's see how truly unbiased the networks are
     
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  5. GuessWho A Californian Registered Senior Member

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    Kerry has disgraced the US Navy by going against all the three core values of the US Navy: Honor, Commitment and Courage.

    Many choose to ignore this because it is the truth and it reminds me of the famous movie quote that some people "...can't handle the truth!"

    I can imagine Fox to air this but it will totally be quite a surprise for me if CNN will ever even mention this.

    Thank you for the link, it is good stuff!
     
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  7. Pangloss More 'pop' than a Google IPO! Registered Senior Member

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    767
    These attacks on Kerry's war record are just disgraceful and so obviously partisan that they can be discounted on face. Truth my ass. The guy volunteered for river boat duty, some of the most hazardous duty in Vietnam, and even if he hadn't won three purple hearts and three medals (I think?) he'd still be a hero.

    The proof is the fact that if he weren't running for office there's not a Republican voter in this country who wouldn't stop to salute this man on the street and thank him for his service to the country.

    Unbelievable. Frankly I'm downright embarassed to be a Bush supporter when I see crap like this.
     
  8. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Is this what you are refering to? :
    Weak, guys, really weak. How did he lie? What was his first injury that it didn't deserve a purple heart? What exactly was the lie that resulted in his getting a bronze star? What was the difference between Kerry's account and what actually happened? To serve your country and then speak up about the horrors that occurred in the great mistake called Vietnam is the height of patriotism, in my opinion.

    Shall we talk about George W. Bush, and the strings his daddy pulled to get him a cushy situation in the National Guard, from which he was AWOL, instead getting high on coke, and driving around drunk?
     
  9. otheadp Banned Banned

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    i just don't understand why someone's Vietnam record is such a big deal. Clinton didn't serve a day in the army and he was elected to be a president. why is it all of a sudden the issue?

    it's irrelevant who served where. does every cover CIA operative deserve a shot at the presidency just cause he pulled some Rambo shit?

    the point is that Kerry shouldn't wave his dick around when it comes to Vietnam.

    These attacks on Kerry's war record are just disgraceful and so obviously partisan that they can be discounted on face.
    the veterans that support him are also partisan. by the way, i think that hearing Kerry's former commanding officer or commander telling you straight up that "Kerry is not fit to lead" has some value in it.

    The guy volunteered for river boat duty
    the term "semi-volunteered" is often used when describing Kerry's army service. i'm not sure what that means but at least i'm sure it wasn't completely Pat Tillman type of volunteering. partially it was a draft

    he'd still be a hero
    a hero is someone who went above and beyond. he did a typical tour of duty. if he saved these 2 men from enemy fire or whatever then he is a hero.. but if he just pulled them out of the river that's no heroism. that's the bare minimum a soldier should do.

    The proof is the fact that if he weren't running for office there's not a Republican voter in this country who wouldn't stop to salute this man on the street and thank him for his service to the country.
    the way he slandered all the soldiers as war criminals and practically destroyed the morale of the entire US army?
    i'd spit on him if i was a Vietnam vet.
     
  10. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,955
    Single handedly destroyed the morale of the U.S.Army? I think a quick study of the Vietnam conflict would show the U.S. government was far more responsible. Surely you overestimate his impact.

    I'd like to see proof that he portrayed all of our soldiers as criminals.
     
  11. otheadp Banned Banned

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    5,853
    it's public record.
    additionally, when Vietnam vets came home from their tours of duty they were spat on for being "baby killers", without any investigation whether they personally committed any "war crimes".
    whether he said "every single soldier did it" or not, the effect was devastating regardless. any soldier was considered by the masses a war criminal upon return.

    it's of course arguable who was more responsible, but he did have a huge impact.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2004
  12. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    4,955
    You're the one claiming he said it. I'd like a reference, or a link to one.

    I've heard the spit in the face stories as well. It appears they may just be urban legends.

    http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/?uc_full_date=20040713

    Did Kerry claim to have witnessed anything even close to as bad as the Mei Lai massacre? Now there was an incident that tarred the Army as baby killers.
     
  13. towards Relax...head towards the light Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Actually it is now being considered as urban legend that Vietnam Vets were ever spat upon...

    http://slate.msn.com/id/1005224

    Did you ever consider why you have never seen a video of this, or heard a vet talk about it?

    As far as Kerry is concerned, I have heard one vet say he pulled two men out of the water during enemy fire, another claim that he swam across a river to kill an already injured Vietnamese soldier. I simply do not know what to believe, because I am hearing so many contradictory statements.
     
  14. towards Relax...head towards the light Registered Senior Member

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    640
    Opps... looks like repo man beat me out

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  15. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    otheadp, are you voting for Bush? Because you know Ashcroft will crack down on your pot, there are already hints of this, a report that came out about how it's so much stronger now so it should be taken more seriously...and Tommy Chong is in prison for selling bongs! Everybody sells goddamn bongs, WTF! And Bush's talent for pissing off the Arabs is NOT going to help Israel at all...
     
  16. Pangloss More 'pop' than a Google IPO! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    767
    I agree. Why are you making it the issue?


    Of course they have points of view -- they're human beings. I even agree with your last sentence above, that the commander's statement "has some value". Some. The world is gray, not black and white.

    But most of the individuals who were there with him confirm his service and his valor. The story about the boats coming under fire, beaching the boat and running on shore to take out the attacker is one of the most dramatic stories I've ever heard from that theater. And I've heard a lot of them. There is something visceral, human, integral, immediate and absolutely horrifying about that story. If that's not an act of valor, I don't know what is.


    I meant that as a statement of opinion, not objective fact. In my book they're all heros, whatever they did over there. But in my opinion you're very, very wrong in your assessment of Kerry's actions in pulling two men out of the river. NOTHING that ANYBODY ever does under fire is "the bare minimum", and they were ALWAYS in somebody's crosshairs on that river.


    I just don't think you have any idea how much this weakens your pro-Bush stance. The whole line of reasoning is just pattently ridiculous.
     
  17. Undecided Banned Banned

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    4,731
    The whole line of reasoning is just pattently ridiculous.

    Don’t be surprised….

    As relating to the Kerry, Vietnam scenario what makes his situation rather unique is that he did not have to go. How many Yale grads and members of Skull and Bones went to Vietnam voluntarily? I’d vouch not much, we know that Bush didn’t, we know that Cheney and Clinton avoided going as well. Kerry as an American citizen has every right to criticize a war that was ethically, materially, and strategically wrong. It’s easy for us to say “he’s a bastard who threatened the entire US military” without understanding that he knew what was happening in Vietnam first hand. Aren’t we supposed to respect the veteran’s? Vietnam was his war, and he fought it unlike so many who now bitch, alas GWB. Kerry took one of the most dangerous jobs in the war, patrolling the Mekong Delta, with heavy foliage, with the Vietcong hiding in that foliage, and his job was to attract fire to his boat! Kerry’s record as a war veteran simply has no compare in this election.
     
  18. Pangloss More 'pop' than a Google IPO! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    767
    Well put.
     
  19. otheadp Banned Banned

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    are you voting for Bush?
    if i was an American

    Because you know Ashcroft will crack down on your pot
    good. i hate weed. it's just a nickname, you know?

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    Bush's talent for pissing off the Arabs is NOT going to help Israel at all...
    i believe pissing them off is the right way to go... but that's not the topic here so we'll leave it to another thread

    Why are you making it the issue?
    i'm responding to it already being an issue. i don't think his record has much relevance since there are other army officers who had done more heroic deeds yet they are unfit to lead a country

    But most of the individuals who were there with him confirm his service and his valor.
    i heard it's the other way around. in addition, there's enough evidence against Kerry for a 250 page book
    also, check out what googling for "Vietnam vets for kerry" has produced. not a single pro-Kerry website.
    looks like many veterans simply hate his guts

    now, if he is such a hero, why does the doctor who treated Kerry, Kerry's commanding officer(s) and fellow soldiers, at least 2-dozen of them are calling him a liar? do you think all of them just have a "political agenda"?

    and it's still besides the point - his military record could be the best of all time - it doesn't matter. what matters is he can be a good president.
    it's like saying "well, i'm the fastest runner in the class, therefore i will ace my math exam"
    what's one thing got to do with the other?

    finally, i'll repeat what i've already written and been quoted on :
    "if he saved these 2 men from enemy fire or whatever then he is a hero.. but if he just pulled them out of the river that's no heroism. that's the bare minimum a soldier should do"
     
  20. Undecided Banned Banned

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    and it's still besides the point - his military record could be the best of all time - it doesn't matter. what matters is he can be a good president.

    Is this a serious criticism? JFK went through this military experience in a small patrol boat in the Pacific war, and that is regarded as one of the most heroic, and most influential things that JFK has ever done (Does anyone feel that the JFK, and JFK has a lot in common, because I do?). What do you think “commander and chief” connotates? Although it is true that really it doesn’t prove his campaign promises, what it shows is his personal valor, and tenacity . He has proven in Vietnam that in a war situation he takes charge that cannot be said for Bush. Kerry’s war experience is a valid, and relevant point that he can make. If Bush had the same experience you wouldn’t be complaining, and this would be exploited as well. The man can say “I saved lives, and protected America”, something reserved for very few people.
     
  21. Pangloss More 'pop' than a Google IPO! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    767
    Sorry, quoting partisan sources doesn't cut it with me. What won me over to considering Kerry's war record to be valid are the non-partisan sources, such as the medals and awards he received, the duty he chose. Some of the more moderate testimony on both sides has some value to me, but that's about it.

    Spinning an issue in a partisan fashion is like sleeping with pigs. This smells to hog heaven. Feel free to have the last word.

    By the way, Undecided and Tiassa, I hope you took note of how I responded to this.
     
  22. otheadp Banned Banned

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    Feel free to have the last word.
    i most certainly will, thank you.

    i've asked a question: now, if he is such a hero, why does the doctor who treated Kerry, Kerry's commanding officer(s) and fellow soldiers, at least 2-dozen of them are calling him a liar? do you think all of them just have a "political agenda"?

    and you've answered: What won me over to considering Kerry's war record to be valid are the non-partisan sources.

    i don't know. am i that "partisan" that i can't look at it objectively?

    there are many groups of vets out there against Kerry, they simply hate him for his testimonies. they've probably never met him even. but here you have his doctor, his comrades, his commanding officers... are they partisan?
     
  23. Undecided Banned Banned

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    4,731
    am i that "partisan" that i can't look at it objectively?


    Is that a question, or a statement?
     

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