Ban male circumcision. Why or why not?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by tony2, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. tony2 Registered Member

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    from this site

    “The BMA (British Medical Association) does not believe that parental preference alone constitutes sufficient grounds for performing a surgical procedure on a child unable to express his own view. . . .
    . . . . The BMA considers that the evidence concerning health benefit from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient for this alone to be a justification for doing it. . . .
    Doctors are under no obligation to comply with a request to circumcise a child.”


    Medical associations seem to agree that circumcision is harmful with negative long term consequences. Should medically unwarranted infant male circumcision be banned?
     
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  3. ScrollMaker I Make Scrolls Registered Senior Member

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    I remember hearing that circumcision was actually beneficial because it was harder to obtain diseases.
     
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  5. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Hey, great thread, Tony, this is a very interesting topic, and one I’ve been thinking about recently.

    Being a homosexual male, I guess It’s normal that I should care about other guy’s dicks enough to stand up and say, “Hey, nock it off with the circumcision”. My reasoning is based on more than just that foreskin is fun to play with though; that may have been what got me thinking about it, but it’s not the only thing that shapes my ideas on the subject.

    We criticize the Midwestern practice of cutting off a woman’s clitoris, but for some reason most of the western world doesn’t bat an eye at mutilating mens’ penises shortly after birth is just barbaric! This is really something that young men should be able to decide for themselves later in life. I wake up every morning and feel a little sad that my penis was brutalized. What’s worse is that this isn’t exactly a really clean process, I’ve had a big scar down my shaft for as long as I can remember, and I’d wager it’s not because I’ve been doing anything irregular with it. What a damn shame, it’s strange to think of such a violation and occurring at such a young age that you’ve really no memory of it, it’s simply inexcuseable.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I think that circumcision should be a matter of choice. I don't see any good reason it should be done to children who cannot consent. If they want to have it done when they are older, I have no problem with that, but then it's their choice, not their parents'.
     
  8. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    A female prespective:

    Despite the fact that I'm a muslim, I don't believe in circumcision of males. I do think it's barbaric and ancient procedures that is being protected by misconceptions like diseace and stuff.

    On the contrary to what you may hear, the foreskin of the Pinus is designed to protect againest diseace. The pinus is supposed to be a wet organ, just like the tongue and needs to be covered up with skin just like our tongues are inside our mouth. A circumcised pinus dries off looses sensation. In addition, it cracks and contracts disease more readily.

    What really pisses me off though is the fact that religous zealous are the main one to insist on that ancient practice despite the fact that they belief that god's creation is perfect. Are they insulting god when they interfere with his perfect design and go mutilating body parts? I guess if god wanted us mutilated, he would have created us this way? Also, if evolution wants us to be mutilated, then we would be mutilated by now....This procedure is clearly invasive.

    As a matter of female taste, I like the uncircumcised look much better...I prefer the cute pink peekaboo look over the all the time dried up blue mushroom look.
     
  9. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    Good for you Mystech. This is the first time that I have heard you admit to your sexual orientation. I apologize for what I have said in the past in regards to homosexuals. I changed my mind completely on the subject, and I no longer object to homosexuals, their marriage, or even adoption. We are free to live as we choose, and if there is any lesson to be learned from religion, then it's tolerance, love, peace, and leaving the judgement to god who judges people on much more than their sexual life.
     
  10. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Wow, gee Flores, thanks for that. I'm sorry for any time I called you a myopic bigot or anything to that effect. That was big of you to apologize like that.

    On the topic of circumcision, I can't say that I’ve ever had a chapped penis before due to my lack of a foreskin, but I still have no idea why it was done to me. Mild questioning to my parents about it shows that they are unwilling to talk about it, and I'm certain they aren't of any particular religious sect that insists on it. I guess I'm just left to wonder if there was a time when doctors would just do it unless you asked them not to. Proactive genital mutilation is really not my idea of a good way to fulfill that "Do no harm" oath they have to take.
     
  11. tony2 Registered Member

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    14
    Well! Opponents find meeting ground in an otherwise controversial topic!

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    Apparently as many as 90% newborn male infants in the US were cut in the near past. The reason was due to poor research on it's alleged benefits. Now the US medical association advises against it. However, junk science dies slowly - the percentage has declined to about 50% now and is set to decline further.

    The majority of the posts seem to be anti the idea of genital mutilation aka circumcision. What about the proposal to actually legislate a ban against it ... ?
     
  12. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Well I wouldn't support any legislation to ban circumcision. In my opinion it is sort of destructive, and senseless, but then I've never been one to think that it's government's place to tell us that we can't be destructive and senseless insofar as our own bodies go. Though I may not agree with it, for instance, I wouldn't deny Catholics their right to mutilate their penises so that sex isn't quite as fun (being that enjoying yourself is quite sinful and all), that being just a quick for instance.

    I may, however support a ban on circumcision of newborns, maybe relegating that to something that they'll have to decide on a bit later. . . then I'm no doctor, can circumcision even be preformed later in life? I'm honestly not to clear on this.

    Either way, some announcement from the secretary of health and human services that circumcision doesn't really provide any medical benefits, or some sort of campaign to educate about the real costs and benefits of it on the part of the government is something I would certainly support. One thing we should do away with is this myth that it's necessary for health or hygiene.
     
  13. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Well thanks for the sentiments. Though I suppose that the two of us haven't exactly been on friendly terms in the past, I am still greatful for them.

    I'm a bit confused about the first bit, though, I don't think I've ever made it a secret (not here on sciforums, at least) that I'm gay.
     
  14. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    Here in the Uk, its not done regularly at all. yet in the USA it seeemed De riguer, with an excuse being that it was cleaner with it off. I dont know why. I have heard that american girls find an uncircumcised man different and interesting, anyhow.
    I think, that doing it when the man is older is easily done, but a bit more painful than if its done a few days after birth, something to do with nerve endings growing in or something. PLus its larger, more to cut off, etc. I thought Jews did it a few days after birth, and many tribes did it aged 12 or 13 or 14, as part of the rites leading to manhood.
     
  15. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    Apparently it was done in the 18th century with the idea of reducing masturbation, because quite a lot of nerve endings are severed in the process. But now we know better, right?
     
  16. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    i haven't made any decision on the practice of male circumcision because all i know about it is from my judeo-christian upbringing saying it is hunky-dory. more research needed.

    on a related note, i object to male circumcision in any way being compared to female circumcision. male circumcision is done in hospitals under the utmost care. they slice off the skin around the tip of the penis. if they were to perform female circumcision on a man, it would be eqiuvelant to removing the entire penis below the base, the testicles, and any surrounding fleshy area. then you'd be left to bleed and heal without any assistance. it's a separate issue. please don't compare it.
     
  17. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

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    unnecessary surgery ... on an infant. Be it dick, earlobe, armpit or toe it seems like a pretty bad idea unless there is a specific medical concern.
     
  18. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I do, for one, think that there should be laws against unnecessitated circumcision during childhood (ANY time during childhood).

    I don't think the religious reasons of the parents should be considered either.

    There are laws against murder, be it ritualistic or not, and there should also be laws against the senseless mutilation of defenseless children, be it ritualistic or not.
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    I always find it amazing that parents are regulated to the point of, for example, not being allowed to smack their children, yet they are allowed to circumcise their male babies. It is totally unnecessary and can result in scarring or worse. There was a case I heard about where the circumscision went terribly wrong and the whole penis had to be removed. A male friend of a friend chose to become a Jew and was told that he would have to be circumcised. He was in his late 20's at the time and it was performed throgh day surgery. Well it went horribly wrong and as a result he ended up in hospital for nearly a month with his penis swelled twice it's size and he was in excrutiating pain the whole time. He says that it was the biggest mistake he'd ever made as he is unable to enjoy sex as he used to due to the fact that his penis cannot drain of blood properly after the act and therefore after sex, his penis would remain extremelly painful and sensitive. But as he says, it was his choice to make. I asked him once if he'd ever circumcise his own child and he said no, that he'd leave it to his son to decide, and he didn't care what his religion stated. He told me that his son would hear all the details of what happened to him and also hear of all that could go wrong, before he went ahead with the circumcision.

    To take the right to choose what a person does with their body, just because that person is a baby is wrong. The male should be allowed to choose whether they have their foreskin removed or not. That choice should not be taken from them.
     
  20. Flores Registered Senior Member

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    Actually, what I said above is my real views...the other garbage I have been saying on the past are culturally influenced thinking or brain washing. The bottom line is if two consenting adults are not hurting anyone (including themselves) then they should be free to do as they wish. Sex should be done safely and openly....secrecy always leads to problems.

    I have heard on a TV show (couple of days ago), that 50% of the AIDS sufferers are black. The reason being was that black men have gay relationships in secret while maintaining a straight marriage, a couple of girl friends on side, ect....Because the black man's conscious nor manhood could accept him being gay, his judgement is clouded while he is having gay sex, and he is subjected to harm. He in turn gives AIDS to his wife, his wife gives it to the kids, he gives it to the girl friends who pass it over to the kids and we end up with those weird statistics that couldn't be explained.

    According to the show, white men are more likely to admit that they are gay, be involved in a faithfull relationship, and take care of themselves to ensure that noone gets hurt in the process.....I think it has a lot to do with self confidence.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's a horrible barbaric practice! Like getting a tattoo, minors should not be able to get them. It's quite hypocritical, my granddad (jewish) called tattoos barbaric, but thought nothing of mutilated genitals.
     
  22. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    I do miss my foreskin, though I hardly ever knew it. Hey, do you think that in the future I might be able to get some sort of implant? That'd make my day! Is anyone here a medical doctor? What would it take to reverse circumcision?
     
  23. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    I dont particularly think the foreskin is anything special to look at, its those nerve endings I miss. To think that somone elses weiner feels like 50% better than mine does is upseting. Although to tell the truth I havnt ever really noticed a problem with the amount of feeling not being sufficient.
     

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