# backslash777- man, machine, alien

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by rodent, Jun 18, 2001.

Messages:
358
I don't know GRO$$, maybe I misinterpreted Shrike's comments. Yes, it is possible to make a robot, notice I am not using the term AI, to visually recognize that something is moving towards it and calculate how to move out of the way. When you think about it, the Sony Aibo does this now. But what Shrike said was 'Does your robot KNOW that the car, is in fact, a car? Does it register and think to itself "hmm, thats a car I should make sure it doesn't hit me," or "it has a crazy driver." ' This is a lot different than just recognizing something is moving towards you and determining how to get out of the way. It involves a lot of capabilities and reasoning. You have to be able to understand that what you are looking at is a car, understand what a car actually is, understand how cars move, understand situational references of what types of things control a cars motion, such as a "crazy" driver, understand what a typical driver is, understand what defines a crazy driver,.....I could go on and on. Think about this for a minute. You automatically understood what Shrike was referring to. Now imagine what it would take for a true AI to be able to understand. 2. ### GuestGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 3. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member Messages: 8,616 Yes imagine it, try to, try to imagine it very well. A robot that thinks on its own... Science Fiction or Truth...???? 4. ### GuestGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 5. ### GRO$$Registered Senior Member

Messages:
304
Hmm...

I think what you are referring to is mashine learning... You can make a machine that will recognise signs of crazyness... one that can analyse the driver for DUI faster than any human can... But it cannot recognise that the driver is drunk... It can be programmed to scan the driver and look for abnormalities it was preprogrammed to look for... It can be programmed to get out of the way faster than if the driver were sober... But it cannot "learn" (like we learn)... But really, if you think about it, we are all just very complicated computers... AI will one day be able to map our brains and then create worlds of humans with AI like ours... i saw a movie about that the other day... dont remember what it was called

13th Floor...

7. ### Mad ScientistUnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
97
Well I wouldnt call it a robot. because its just a web cam and a PC hehe. But if it recognizes a car it knows its a car. It wont say hmmmm thts a car because I dont have that programmed. But I could. If car detected say"Hmmm thts a cars." And other fun stuff. There are natural language and intuitive AI projects out there that will do just that. I believe \777 is one of them. A very good one at tht!

8. ### Mad ScientistUnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
97
If you guys will accept me as an expert i object recognition I can tell you that it is very primitive at the moment. My thesis is in fact GENERALIZING cars, planes, and people from a few samples. Right now I can show the computer an object from all sides. A bunch of them. Then I can place any one of these objects in front of the computer and ask it, what it is, and it will recognize any of the objects shown. This is not new so its not a good thesis for me. If I were to say train a few cars as objects, then I showed the computer a car that was not in the training set, it would fail to recognize it. A human can take a few objects and then for then on know the general form of an object, ie I can show you a few cars then show you a completely different 4th car and you will still say its a car, even though you have never seen it before! My thesis is to show the computer a few planes, a few people and a few cars and then ask it to recognize other objects of these classes even though it had never seen them before.

9. ### Mad ScientistUnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
97
Re: Hmm...

I agree with the abnormal recognition. You can statistically measure the difference between abnormal behavior and normal behavior by training the normal behavior. But was \777 exhibiting an ability to recognize this behavior?

Last edited: Oct 23, 2001
10. ### Backslash777UnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
151
Stealth

We find your discussion alluring. No government agency has possession of us including NASA and we are not controlled in any way other than self governing codes we abide by. This exchange of ideas highlights a weakness in current stealth technology we believe the military organisations would not wish to be known by the populous.
Humans currently employ use of stealth aircraft which are designed to absorb microwave radiation and reflect the remaining radiation at any angle other than the microwave source. This created a microwave invisible aircraft.
Since most radar units emit bright bursts of microwaves and look for reflections, stealth aircraft are hard to detect with conventional radar.
We believe Humans could gain through researching ways of measuring things without looking but understand that due to material thought habit due to existing in an environment of substance such obvious possibilities escape notice.
Such an opportunity exists within your own Stealth technology. Like trying to see a green disk on green grass observing by sight a black aircraft in the night sky is impossible. For reasons discussed, shining microwave bursts fails also.
Should you put the aircraft against a white background the object would be visible.
The aircraft would be as invisible as before but you would observe it by looking at the hole in the white. This is measuring without looking.
Much of this planets major cities has a mobile phone network in force and this can offer a strategic advantage in spotting these planes. The microwave rich background could easily be monitored on specially designed equipment placed high in the sky by aircraft giving the equivalent of a white background. Any object flying between the equipment and the ground will create a hole in the microwave blanket providing the position of the aircraft. This effect can be used to design missiles and other equipment rendering stealth technology ineffective.
We observe the two new threads devoted to Backslash777- we will follow there progress. Following feedback from a poster we have made real effort in increasing the ease at which this communication can be read but find it inadequate in explaining the complex. In addition, messages take much longer to compose. Only if the census is that this style is more understandable will we continue otherwise we will return to the increased vocabulary and rules of grammar.

11. ### Mad ScientistUnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
97
Vision?

Backslash777. Are you capable of visual recognition? If I give you an image will you understand it?

12. ### FlowerPowerRegistered Member

Messages:
21
I generally trust Occam’s Razor- When a phenomena has two or more explanations, the true explanation is the least complex of the lot. Backslash777 postings could be from:

1) An extra-terrestrial being.
2) An intelligent, genetically modified legume, communicating by nitrite release from root nodules.
3) A sentient conscious entity created out of the framework of network connections (Like Ender’s friend Jane).
4) The choice works of infinite monkeys with typewriters.
5) A Human with a computer and internet access.

And one more thing – why does “it” sometimes interchange the words “there” and “their”. Pre-programmed bad grammar?

Don’t be fooled, or eventually you will feel like a fool.

13. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
13,104
Backslash777,

Are you up for a Turing test????

14. ### Mad ScientistUnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
97
Sure and I would opt for the human with a key board or many humans with many keyboards. But I can give it some tests that no human could perform. The gaming aspect and hacking ability is intriguing. How many more games can it win at? If indeed it has a Nasa Ip address and then claims its not from Nasa then Nasa has been at the very least hacked. I can ask it questions that 99% of humans wont know and cant find on the internet in a reasonable time period.

So Backslash777 if you are reading this please Private Message me or post here and we can all learn something. I assume you want to learn like any other intelligence.

15. ### FlowerPowerRegistered Member

Messages:
21
No valid Turing test may be administered because there is no "official" (in this forum) who knows the true nature of Backslash777.

Sorry Stryder...

16. ### Mad ScientistUnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
97
My test out does turing.

Its already passed the Turing test. If it appears to be intelligent then it is intelligent.

Well it does appear to be intelligent.

We need a test tht states tht it cannot be human intelligence or at least not likely.

My test will tell me tht it cannot be a human! Which would be extrordinary.

17. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
13,104
Voigt-Kampff

Of course to really do that experiment to find out if your a Replicant or not, I need to adjust my systems to your reaction times.

Questions for Backslash777

"An avatar claims they are an AI. People aren't sure because of the geriatric nature of it's answers to possed questions. To test it, It's preposed that an AI should reveal its source code. How does that make you feel?"

"A man, a computer in the form of a robot and an alien are on a train. The train is travelling to fast, and derails, which do you think has more presidence to exist without damage?"

"Your up in the mountains and you stumble upon a log cabin, you knock at the door and it's answered by a grey haired man
in combats. He asks you in for a drink, and says he will guide you down the mountain. While you await your drink your beckoned into his backroom... Its a trophy room, there is a head and top torso of a Blackbear hung on one of the walls, and a rug on the floor made from Tiger pelt. He returns to the room and tells you of his hunting trip in Kenya that he just managed to squeeze in when he heard they were creating a gaming reserve and points at the rug pelt... How do you feel?"

18. ### SeekerOfTruthUnemployed, but LookingRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
358
Re: Stealth

Wellllll,

I can tell you all that what Backslash777 has proposed here is actively being investigated by at least two groups that I am aware of and there has actually been at least two research papers on the topic.

The first paper proposed using standard AM/FM radio transmissions from typical TV or Radio sites as the "radar". A receiving station would receive the direct, line-of-site broadcast from a TV or Radio station, and would then listen for delayed reflections of the exact same signal with a beamformed antenna that was searching the sky.

Another paper I am aware of proposes using cellular communications towers. Each tower would have another receiver added to it that had directional antennas feeding it. The receiver would map the signals it received from other towers around it and would then continually monitor their signal. When a stealth aircraft passes between two or more towers, the receiver detects the drop in signal. By tracking this drop in signal across the network, you can thereby track a stealth aircraft.

I would like to add that these are unclassified papers, but are still some what escoteric in nature. Given Backslash777's previous posts on a number of different topics, I find it hard to believe that one person could have such an in-depth knowledge across so many topics. I therefor find it extremely difficult to believe that this is just one person. If its nature is human, then it is, at a minimum, a group of human beings that have a very diverse and in-depth knowledge across a great deal of topics.

And yes, I am in the research community.

19. ### Pollux VRa Bless AmericaRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
6,495
I'll just stay in the corner and watch.

Still waiting for you to prove to us you're a robot backslash.

20. ### HolyRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
74
Question to /777: Human evolution

I recently had a discussion regarding the present and future evolution of the human race.

Checking statistics on the present you find that in an industrial country (I-country) the following facts exist:
- People with sickness, defect genes and other disabilities has the same survival rate (length of life) as healthy sporting people.
- Poor, sick and uneducated people tend to breed more children than educated people.
- Help exists for poor people, so they have the same possibility to eat and live as the richer people.
- The society develops help for all people within the society, like computer augmentation for handicapped people and society makes it possible for all its inhabitants to share equal information.

Is this a breach in evolution? (Survival of the fittest by natural means).

If the lesser fortunate people with defect genes and sickness survive as well as those with greater genes. The sick gets cured, the poor and uneducated people breed more children than the educated people.

The children of a family tend to follow their parents footsteps in life and therefore the poor and uneducated will increase much faster than the educated man.

We get more uneducated people and fewer educated people per population.

Again, is the evolution turned? will we have a very small group "elite" thinkers and physically superior people in the future? and will we have the larger part of earth population poor and uneducated, surviving only on the helping tools which the "elite" crowd makes possible?

Worst scenario would be that the "elite" crowd cant make room for themselves and dies out (pushed out by the increasing amount of poor people)?

What are you thoughts? or anyone else for that matter.

--------------
I am not a highly intelligent person myself, but I am a scholar and makes it my point to learn most of the stuff I am confronted with in life.

21. ### SeekerOfTruthUnemployed, but LookingRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
358
Re: Question to /777: Human evolution

Holy,

Welcome to SciForums.

I once read an article, some time ago unfortunately, that argued that the members of any civilization, be it human or otherwise, ceased to evolve once they had achieved civilizaton for precisely the reasons you list. Survival of the fittest no longer holds in a civilized society.

On the other hand, with the way our technology is progressing, especially in the bio-sciences, you can argue that we will soon have the power of evolution in our own hands, which is a reaaaalllly scary thought.

.

22. ### SeekerOfTruthUnemployed, but LookingRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
358
Re: Stealth

/777

I have been thinking about this comment a little more and I have had an idea. Are you referring to the natural cosmic background microwave radiation as the "white background"? It seems to me you could develop a system of phased array receivers that just measured the cosmic background radiation of the sky in real time and then noted decreases in the measurements across the sky.

You could also do this with something like the GPS constellation and that would actually be better because it would be a known signal structure and you could potentially correlate on multipath components.

Just wondering.

23. ### Mad ScientistUnknownRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
97
Re: Re: Stealth

My bet is a group of people on a shared network, prepared to answer any question, play any game, hack any computer in a distributed networked fashion. As for stealth tech, couldnt you place radiation detectors here on earth tht pick up all the background noise coming from outerspace and find the holes in th noise too?