Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Michael, Mar 16, 2010.
Yeah...the Supreme Ayatollah of the Islamic Republic of Iran...
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Only if Buffalo Roam is an atheist who wants no nativity scenes in the public sphere.
Or God on the dollar bill.
I'm still wondering why this EVENT is relevant
What has it affected? Or whom?
Apologies for the hyperbole, SAM.
I guess it effects all of the Iranians who find themselves torn between 3000 years of heritage and their Supreme Leader. I searched the internet for about 30 minutes looking for other Iranian Islamic clerics who have spoken out against this festival in history, but I could find none---this isn't to say that none exist, of course, but if this festival was such a profanity to Islam, one would think that there would have been some previous opposition, especially when that government has had no real problems with the festival for the past 30 years, or the previous 1500.
The Iranians I know are largely liberal, and think that Ahmadinejad is a nut case---this may be due to the fact that I've only met Iranians who have come to America to study, but their point of view is that Tehran is a pretty liberal place, and I find this hard to disbelieve. So, at least from my experience, it seems pretty silly that a government that is supposedly representative of the people would ban a cultural celebration that most Iranians take part in on religious grounds.
Somehow if 70 million people decide not to jump over a fire for one day in a year I don't see it as a life changing moment.
Come to think of it, even if 70 million do jump over a fire I don't see it as a life changing moment.
So exactly how many people boycotted the festival?
Also I don't think the longevity of a tradition is what makes it relevant. Genital mutilation is 5000 years old but I doubt you'll consider that a valid reason to not boycott it.
guess not; is the ayatollah an israelis?
Sounds to me like people could get hurt if fire jumping is the pinnacle activity. Not even a rational parent would allow that.
the pilgrimage to mecca is an old religious and cultural event, started well before mohammads works and still observed
the divide of women/men and chanting itself is a zoroaster (eastern) based observance.
meaning; islam is the longest and largest observing theology that combined the east and western sects.
sure, all the way back to when palestine was persian.
sure, just like the dali interprets no eating meat as 'good' but he must (and most all human herbivores) eat meat for proper health.
So your claim is biased and based on the simplicity of news reporting combined with reduced awareness of what you are saying.
is that like Israel shutting down the dome, during a muslim religious observance a couple weeks ago; that is still in effect as of RIGHT NOW.
the only reform is that some people want action. Kind of like at berkeley, ca... that students are pissed at raising tuition and removing educational opportunities. I will bet more are in assembly all over the US over the governments med over haul than in iran's 'reform party'
and in Iran, some biased reporter could be reporting like you are but claiming, 'the american children are boycotting anything jewish and want us to have nuclear weapons; for equality in the region"
How would you like the abuse of ignorance imposed against 'we the people'?
with a 'wannabe' jewish state next door that is oppressing the religion of islam, be certain nothing will undo what iran is, no matter how much ranting you claiming
iran is more stable as a country, prospering and has an huge economy right now; while we in the west are puting the burden on the next (multiple) generations (deficit)
Israel has no right to keep 20% of its population from voting the current government from power; do you defend them?
Now you're just finding excuses, and you're missing the point.
I cold just as well say ``Who cares about the FBI wire tapping my phone. I don't call terrorists. I don't know any terrorists, and I don't plan on ever discussing things that could be interpreted as terrorism. Who really gets hurt by un-warranted wire tapping?''
Should people not be allowed to jump over fires if that's what they want to do? Why is this festival suddenly offensive to Islam?
Has anyone prevented anyone from jumping over any fire?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Like the fires burned every year for Holi, I think such festivals should be opted out of, if only for environmental concerns. I feel the same way about people who use too many Christmas lights.
So no, I'm not able to get too excited over such irrelevancies.
Meanwhile, most Iranians are Muslims. So they are essentially celebrating a non-Muslim festival. Thats actually commendable of them especially since Zoraostrians in India no longer celebrate it. [They celebrate Nowruz, but not Chahar Shanbeh Soori]. Which is quite bizarre in a way. Muslims celebrating a Zoraostrian New Year as part of their culture, while Zorastrians have trimmed it off the same accoutrements
The evil western media seem to suggest otherwise:
Yeah because Americans are soooooooooo concerned about Iranians who want to celebrate a Zoroastrian festival. Maybe they'll bomb the country to show how much they disapprove of such intolerance.
Now you're changing the subject.
No, I'm highlighting the hypocrisy.
Was the security presence for the festival or for the political rally, which could have led to violence?
All this pseudo concern for Iranian culture gives me indigestion.
Meh...take some Tums. The question isn't whether we care about Iranian culture, the question is whether you care. I don't have a problem admitting that I don't particularly know about or care about the Iranian culture---if Iranians don't care to jump over fires anymore, that's their business. But, from the woman who argues so vehemently against outside influence in cultural traditions, don't you think that it's a bit odd that you find yourself on the other side of this discussion?
Anyway, do you think that this is something that should be dictated to Iranians? At least I find it odd that a government which is supposedly popularly elected would suddenly outlaw a festival that they previously had no problems with, in conjunction with banning the opposition parties.
Is it Halloween?
Festival of bad luck
— The festival, which dates back to 1700BC in the Zoroastrian era, is held on the eve of the final Wednesday of the Persian calendar year
— It is seen as the most unlucky night of the year, so it is hoped that fire and light will help Iranians to see the night through. Fire is associated with Zoroastrian worship
— It was believed that the living were visited by the spirits of ancestors on this night. Many children re-enact this by wrapping themselves in shrouds and knocking on doors to ask for treats
— It is now held as a secular festival
Sources: AFP, Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies
the concept that the state even allows the identification of a 'secular festival' in itself is impressive
could you imagine if american's found out that some of these so called 'rogue' nations are actually far and away as oppressive as many think
for example; who ever talks bad about russia anymore?
and god knows if china was so evil as a dictatorship, perhaps 'we' all should boycott walmart to slow down 'their' economy
Personally, I think they should make street fires illegal.
Are Iranian Americans permitted to light fires in the street and jump over them? Do Iranian expats even celebrate Chahar Shanbeh?
As far as I know---the Iranian guy I knew at Stanford invited me last year to a local celebration, but I couldn't go.
And anyway you are changing the subject again. The opposition from the grand Ayatollah (PBUH) has nothing to do with street fires.
You're as much of a troll here as you are in my forum.
No and it has nothing to do with religion either. Moreover, its an opinion. Which hasn't even had the slightest impact. So what is the discussion about? Irrelevancies.
This isn't what the article seemed to imply:
Or is ``corruption'' just a poor translation?
It seems to be about the Iranian government's oppression of it's own people; the outlawing of freedom of speech; the raping and torturing of political protesters in jail; the will of an unelected government.
Or it could be just about some small fires in the street that have been going on for 3000 years that no one will miss.
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The way I see it, he's doing his job. He's the Grand Ayatollah and its his job to have opinions on Shia society. Maybe people will say, hmm he's right, why are we celebrating a New Year for a religion we've outgrown? And they'll stop doing it. Mostly, they won't, like the al Azhar directive against FGM didn't faze the Egyptians. And that is a lifechanging decision.
As for the rest, let me know when expressing an opinion equals outlawing freedom of speech.
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