Avoiding the pits of extreme skepticism

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by greenberg, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    The notion or concept of consciousness is circular or self-referential, inviting infinite regress.
    Like many other notions or concepts.
     
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  3. Gustav Banned Banned

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  5. Gustav Banned Banned

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    wes

    well? you ready to fuck maya up the ass or not?
     
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  7. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    maya? is she hot? hehe.
     
  8. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    So just let me ask...

    What's the difference, and how do YOU determine it, between what is, and what seems to be?
     
  9. Gustav Banned Banned

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    oh
    maya= illusory shit

    no joke wes
    evaluate rand against...maybe/maybe not
     
  10. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    man I just don't follow you.

    rand the author? objectivisim?

    ?

    what?

    pardon.
     
  11. Gustav Banned Banned

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    nevermind

    /kowtow
     
  12. Gustav Banned Banned

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    pardon. a distinction
    what are you in for?
     
  13. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    not worth it? pardon my cluelessness.
     
  14. Gustav Banned Banned

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  15. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    The Magic Formula.

    Seriously, I do think it might be possible to come up with a simple (but not necessarily easy) solution to the problem of skepticism.
     
  16. Gustav Banned Banned

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    what is the problem?
     
  17. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Well not really if your points to me about metaphysical systems earlier were at all correct, as perhaps you may stumble upon something that works for you, but since all metaphysical systems are different, yours wouldn't solve anything in another's frame of reference eh?
     
  18. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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  19. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    To me:

    - seems unlikely
    - can't find reasonable support for it in my own arsenal of bullshit.
    - haven't seen reasonable support for it in memory.
    - isn't going to kill me immediately as far as I can tell if I don't believe it.

    (the above and prolly other stuff) -> utility

    parts of the same thing ya know? seeming unlikely is part of it, yeah.

    Well, a lot because it doesn't fit what seem to be, which is effectively to me "what is", which leads to terms being a little weird I think.


    Well this is nerdoverlord's relativity. Probably not nearly as good as big E.

    What I find interesting is that were this the situation, you would indeed find yourself mimicing me, and I you. We'd meld a bit, unless we just clashed.

    It would be cool! DO IT!


    As I think most are really, even though we pretend otherwise. Is purposefully suppressing emotion, emotional? I think it is really, but welcome opposition.

    Related thought: Consider like a "matrix" of inter-related concepts. I consider "emotion" to be sort of a "tensile strain" as implemented in the subset of the concepts that is active at a given time in a thought. Emotions thereby can change the "flow of thought" through these inter-relationships by constricting the directions in which it may flow, or it can intensify or whatever. Anyway, I think emotions play a large part in thinking in general in the general manner I described.

    Sorry. I used to go by "brain drain" (though not here at sci), if that makes any sense. I have robbed your psyche!


    Too many directions to take that, will have to skip it so as not the take the rest of my life answering. Maybe it'll come out in the wash.


    Whose then? If I create my own it isn't me? If I adopt one that's someone else thinking for me?


    How do the answers vary in a way that's significant to you? To me to say "it is" is the same as saying "I think it is", as you had to have thought it to say it, eh? As such, your proclamation is the fruit of your mind and is as such, "what you think is" (provided honesty). I just happen to note the implied "seems" when it seems pertinent to do so.

    They're the same to me, so apparently we're in agreement. Neat.

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    Hmm. I'm sorry I haven't meant to give the impression that it's uniform in practice. It's ubiquitous to me as a condition of existing, not at all necessarily so in practice. I thought I'd been mentioning that in a mind undergoing whatever, "is" is generally of far more utility and utlized far more often than not. My only point is to defend my comment "seems is all we really have", as "seems" really underlies (recognized or not) all the "ises" proclaimed in all existence as I know it.

    - to proclaim is to purport from a perspective. this perspective can take itself as it pleases. 'the tao' (the unknowable mechanism of the universe) seems rather indifferent to how a perspective takes itself. regardless of how the proclamation is offered, it is representative of a perspective. as such, "from that perspective" is implicit to any utterance from that perspective.

    Interesting notion here, and yes I'll bet you do. Cool stuff. I frame all that shit in terms of subjective value, and perhaps a new term "subjective energy" (something like "how much effort you're willing to put into examining whatever, be it physical or mental). Basically, I see economics as analagously completely applicable to the function of mind. I think the amount of energy you're willing to spend on whatever is generally some cost/benefit heuristic that gets built in your mind as a result of you being you and experiencing what you do. If a particular pathway seems like a ridiculous waste of your time, you opt for another. Blah blah blah. I think it's this type of thing I think that is how you influence yourself in the way you mention.

    True.

    Hehe, understood.

    Of course.

    Oh almost surely.

    It is tenative in that I do think I'd allow myself to be convinced otherwise were evidence presented that compelled me to do so. But this is where self-honesty can be quite a gray line. So maybe you're right. Perhaps I'm as rigid as can be. I simply can't tell. My only means to attempt to know is by trying to maintain self-honesty to the highest degree possible. Of course there's no way to know for sure how honest we are with ourselves, as we may not be privy to all the layers.


    Perhaps I do, but I don't. I just spew what seems right to me and let it fall where it may. I defend it if I think it's right, and will abandon it if I think it's wrong. There are precarious pieces though I think.. in any psyche at a given time, that will not just jar loose and be abandoned, as the framework for the entire structure of mind relys upon their support.

    Who's officiating? Hehe. Oh me me! pick me! oh wait, nevermind I'll just talk my smack.

    And I shoudl take the time here to admit I have no idea ultimately, if a think I've said makes a lick of fucking sense to anyone besides me to whom it seemed to at the time. You'll take it for what it's worth to you because that's what we do. *shrug* I simply have faith that I exist, and much bullshit linked to that faith leads me to believe I have a clue. You'll make the call for yourself I'm sure.

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    Nice way to put it.


    I suppose it's a choice but I think of it as recognition of a condition that is necessarily consequential to my presumption of self... due to the resulting geometry and interface of the relation of self and environment. So to me it's not a choice, but a consequence of my comprehension of existing.

    Symbiosis?

    The fundamental reason is always the same: I do not know for sure, as if I did I'd say so. I do not know for sure in the case of those dudes. I do know for sure that I love my family, and that I fix computers and stuff like that. That I know for sure however, doesn't mean that what I know IS. It just means I don't see any reason to doubt it, and that's the only is I can has.

    Are you talking to more than one? You two timing.... I'm out of here.

    HA! No doubt.

    I'd be intersted in knowing of this shit, but sounds too personal to go into here.

    Like what?

    Know your audience! yes I've heard that. I doubt it's really my skill.

    Fair enough and thanks for entertaining my BS thus far.
     
  20. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    Skepticism bewilders me, drains the life out of me.
    Makes me cry and want to do terrible things, just so that it would go away.
     
  21. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    This seems to be based on the assumption that any metaphysical system is a good metaphyiscal system.

    I'm not sure it is so.
     
  22. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Neither am I, but I'd think instead of the way you put it, it's really more like "any metaphysical system that a person has, is the one they have so they're kind of stuck with it". If your singular answer exists, it must be able to overcome this apparent reality.
     
  23. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    ???

    If that is so, then we're doomed to be stuck and never to improve.

    And also, then communication and discussion are pointless, or serve only as ego-boosts.
     

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