Australian Bush Fires

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019.

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  1. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    doesn't seem to be slowing down

    this is the increase i was mentioning a week or so back

    ... could they cope with an increase ?
    how is the government responding to fund & resource the fire fighting ?

    the media theme is starting to sound like a "throwing the hands up and saying nothing more can be done"
    admittedly the more people whom evacuate is probably better, assuming they have somewhere to evacuate to.

    christmas is high income season for a lot of businesses.
    Media have just started to Report Tourism going down(as would be expected)

    many businesses make a majority of their yearly income over the summer christmas season
    while they will take the hit this season, they will come up short near the mid winter.
    i expect many east coast tourism owner operators will be hurting badly if the tourist numbers cant be increased in the off season.


    i can envisage the Australian national economy now starting to suffer from the bush fires.
     
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
    #1

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  3. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Currently, in towns in Victoria and the South Coast of NSW that I have spent a lot of time in and in lots of areas where I have family and friends, people are now sheltering on beaches as there is no way out and we are unable to contact them as the mobile coverage in many of those areas are either gone or sporadic enough that it is best to save them for emergency services. These towns are going up in flames as I type.

    Then we have the fires in the mountains in NSW which have destroyed most of the mountain rain forest areas around Sydney and hundreds of homes lost across the country, lives lost, millions of hectares of forest lost, countless wildlife gone, they suspect a crop of trees that were closely guarded and that dated back millions of years in NSW was also lost, in QLD, some of our historic trees in a rainforest were also lost and can never be replaced, some native species are now classified as close to extinct in many areas. Then the fires in Northern NSW, that are still burning. The horrid fires we had in QLD since September have slowed down somewhat because we managed to get some rain and while it is still burning, it is not being pushed into populated areas at present.

    The federal government refuses to acknowledge the role the changing climate has had and how it has affected this fire season (which is the worst we have seen in the country). Previous requests for the defense force in QLD to help with the fire (one of which they started when they did live fire rounds in a forested area on a catastrophic fire danger day) was met with "they are soldiers, they don't hold fire hoses" initially, but I understand after tremendous pressure and a plummeting approval rating, our Prime Minister has allowed them to be used for help. There is currently talk of using the Navy to help those stranded on beaches to provide them with supplies as all roads are closed due to fire.

    Tourism in parts of the country -- Well, in many parts where tourists would congregate, many of them are currently standing on beaches or scrambling into boats or getting in the water to escape fires..

    The majority of fire fighters dealing with these fires are volunteers, many of whom have been fighting these fires since September (many of them flew to QLD to help us out here and have now had to rush home to deal with the fire emergencies there). When fire chiefs attempted to meet with our Prime Minister during the year to request more resources for this summer, he refused to meet with them, because their contention was because of climate change, the fire seasons will now be worse. They refused to provide those resources... Now we are scrambling. Lack of water is a major issue, lack of aircraft to help bomb these fires and keep people safe or give them time to escape (as an example, one town that went up in flames during the night and this morning were never even issued with an evacuation order, because the fire moved too quickly and boxed them in) is not helping. I believe they are looking to reward the volunteers who have been doing this now non stop for months with some form of payment since the majority would now be on leave without pay as they deal with this.. But it would only be a small amount. A token to appease growing rage in the country.

    To make matters worse, the state Government in NSW cut funding to fire and rescue. The volunteer fire departments had requested more trucks and were denied and their funding was also cut - in the midst of this current fire disaster.

    But our federal Government just ordered a new fleet of ministerial cars - BMW's worth over $100,000... And in the midst of the fire crisis in NSW before Christmas, our PM secretly went on holiday to Hawaii and was pictured giving a hang ten sign and drinking beer floats on the beach and had to be shamed into returning home..

    And the Government in NSW are pushing ahead with a massive fireworks display on Sydney Harbor tonight.. While so much of the state burns, their fire fighters are struggling, some are dying and people are having to sit in the ocean to escape fires.. Frankly, it defies logic and sense. They issued a warning in Sydney for those who would head out to see the fireworks to delay coming into the city, as the smoke and falling ash is a health hazard.. But they are still going ahead with the fireworks.. Even as news breaks of people missing in the fires on the NSW South Coast and over the border in Victoria and the bodies of a father and son were found in one burnt out town in NSW...

    How is the Government responding?

    Badly.

    Horribly.

    Fucking goddamn failing and incompetent with their heads so far up their backsides, that they fail to see what is right in front of their noses - literally..


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    That image was taken by a mother in the town of Mallacoota in South East Victoria, a coastal town close to the NSW border. She got her two young children into a boat and headed out onto the water for safety from the fire. That photo was taken mid morning. The temperature hit 49C at 8am this morning.. While Mallacoota has seen a wind change in the last couple of hours, the situation there is still dire. Now in NSW, towns along the southern coast there are burning and people cannot get out or evacuate, so they are seeking shelter on the beach. The wind change that has come through is not going to help them, but will make things worse.
     
    Bells, Dec 31, 2019
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  5. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    maximum lump sum of $6,000 total or $300 per day
    the Government is clearly attempting to buy votes as they have not defined this as national, instead have asked states to fund themselves which all but one have refused.

    the media seem to be just stopping short of out right blaming the people for making themselves victims of the fires.
    clearly some type of classicist psychopathy going on

    meanwhile is the government rescuing them ?
    doubt it

    channel 9news sounds a bit romantic(playing the toffs on holiday get real life scare)

    ABC ...( oh my god-ism)
    climate change denier spectator effect ?

    no warning at all ?
    really ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
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  7. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Australian Government publishes pet friendly citizens advice posters ...

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    Don't be an ass, vote for us
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
    #4
  8. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    The Government tried to argue that this is a State issue..

    This line of argument started when people rightly questioned where the Prime Minister was in the horror before Christmas and it was discovered that he had secretly gone to Hawaii, on a trip that he would later describe as having been booked 6-7 weeks prior because he promised his daughters a holiday to Hawaii - which fell around the time of the start of the bushfire crisis where several people died.. So it suddenly became a State issue.

    But when there is a State election - the Federal Government travel to the state to try to get votes for their party in that State..

    But a bushfire crisis where people are dying? It stops being an Australian issue and becomes a State issue. Because you know, Hawaii..

    Not here they aren't.. Well, non Murdoch owned media are not.

    Some people on social media are trying to victim blame, asking why people in Mallacoota, for example, did not evacuate when told to, but Mallacoota was never issued with an evacuation order to begin with and towns like Bateman's Bay and Nowra in NSW - many were told to evacuate to there but the wind changes have pushed the fires there as well now.

    The military is being looked at to help those who are now trapped by the fires and cannot get any supplies and many have lost their homes, etc..

    Whether they can be evacuated out remains to be seen. We are talking about thousands of people now. There is talk of evacuations for some of the people stuck on beaches in the small coastal towns in Victoria. I doubt it will happen tonight.

    Someone posted video in Bateman's Bay where the embers were starting fires in the sand dunes by the beach where people were sheltering. There is no rescue for them tonight. They will be sleeping on the beach tonight, as the current weather is making the fires worse and likely to start even more fires.

    But.. They can be comforted that the Government in NSW will be going ahead with the massive fireworks displays...

    If people can see them through the smoke that is.
     
    Bells, Dec 31, 2019
    #5
  9. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i was pro the fire works until it really dawned on me how terrible the air pollution was.

    they should put on an opera performance(inside being projected outside) and a laser show(ideal in such smoke) and some low smoke air burst fire works for effects.
    save the proper display for a few months down the road when people can see it & not die from smoke inhalation

    but its al rip-shit-n-bust new years suicide
    a marketers wet dream
    thats the problem when PR companies run the government
     
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
    #6
  10. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    maybe "because hawaii' wind conditions may prevent the full display
    international media is going to look pretty bad for the fire works company and the government once the fires and the fire works are put side by side on the new years resolutions
    "smoke free" ?
     
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
    #7
  11. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    pictures of Dunkirk is what it reminded me of
    i thought surely the government wont just leave those civilians there(panicking small children no official contact or services)

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    if the military were allowed, ideal opportunity for them to install a small platoon with coms to help co-ordinate the civilians
    connect surf life saving comms and boats to rally first aid and comms and supply wardens to the different groups.
    seems common bloody sense
    the military train for this type of stuff all the time
    its a critical part of their mandate to manage supply and protect civilians inside dangerous situations of extreme harm.

    just sitting there waiting for some @#$!#$%#$ to decide the people are worth it and give them authority to look after their own communities and neighbors.
    ideal training
    making a REAL difference
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
    #8
  12. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Our Prime Minister has confirmed that he and his wife are holding a big party at the PM's Government's house, to watch the fireworks tonight..

    I shit you not...

    Towns on the South Coast of NSW and parts of Victoria have lost all forms of communications as the mobile phone towers were destroyed, landlines were destroyed as are internet cables and access to the net across most of the major networks. They have lost power, there is fear that their water supply may have been tainted or affected by the ash, embers and fires themselves..

    https://twitter.com/FRNSW/status/1211943881790509056

    I have managed to hear from some of my family who evacuated and are currently sleeping on the beach. Still waiting to hear on others.
     
    Bells, Dec 31, 2019
    #9
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  13. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i hope your family are ok

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    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
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  14. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12...rgency-mallacoota-gippsland-corryong/11834010

     
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
    #11
  15. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    "[we were planning to jump in the water]" throw our children into the water and make them swim and then downed as they breathed smoke

    ...
    F_cken idiots

    as the smoke moves over the water it settles on the surface and the heavy particulates fall to the cooler zone, which is directly in the breathing zone of anyone swimming or submerged.
    any type of swimming will vastly reduce critical oxygen to the vital organs including the brain at a time where minimal oxygen use is critical.

    F_cken idiots !
     
    RainbowSingularity, Dec 31, 2019
    #12
  16. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    They had nowhere else to go. Ember attacks and fire, it was the only way they could remain safe. They got in the water when the sirens sounded because not only was there blistering heat and fire and embers falling on them, but gas bottles exploding, etc.. those who had boats got people into boats away from the shore.

    It is easy for you to call them idiots and victim blame from the comfort of your own home where you are safe..

    And my relatives and friends .. I know some are safe and had evacuated as they posted a quick update on facebook with a photo before the lines went down and the images were horrifying, still to hear about others in regards to where they are.. Phones are down at the moment.. Checking red cross, etc, to try to locate them.
     
    Bells, Dec 31, 2019
    #13
  17. Janus58

    Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    Just saw a Facebook post from my nephew who lives in Australia now. Earlier today fires were burning just a couple of neighborhoods over from them. They were ready to evacuate if needed, but last we heard, a wind shift was taking the flames away from them.
     
    Janus58, Jan 1, 2020
    #14
  18. billvon

    billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Probably preferable to burning to death. Let's hope you never have to make that decision. (And if, God forbid you do, there isn't some fool on the Internet calling you an idiot.)
     
    billvon, Jan 1, 2020
    #15
  19. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i am not victim blaming them
    i have been around enough people to know how random events can trigger reactions that while in some instances may seem good, right & logical, are actually only increasing the risk of death.

    i dont want to start giving any nutters any ideas on how to spook crowds of people etc so i will leave it there.

    unless you red-card them and get them to intellectually respond on several levels, because of their shock & stress they are highly unlikely to learn an alternate way to manage the risk.
    that is a very human thing

    1st life guards etc are trained in these types of thinking

    i understand camping ground rules require a certain amount of minding your own business and the idiot factor & yob factor combined usualy present a certain constant on going risk factor.
    that is the nature of lifes risks
    i get it
    but the point needs to be made
    pandering to the feel good
    "its all ok now, i just need to ask you to tweak your Key performance indicators next time for a safer outcome"
    will not teach them to change their thinking systems when it happens again.

    sending scared children into the water where you cant see them is crazy nut job stuff

    did you see how they had parked all their vehicles in a wall between them and the flames so they are down wind in the water when all the petrol paint and rubber and plastic goes up ?
    no chance of survival !
    it was a wall of death waiting for a light

    but what happens is they say "this will never happen again so i don't need to learn how to [think differently]save my life and other peoples"

    i know no one will be liking my comments
    they are the least who will be wanting to hear such things
    they were backing their children into a position of certain death created by how they had parked al the vehicles and sending the kids into the water where they cant be seen or heard and have to swim for it
    as the cool water temp drops all the smoke on to the surface where their heads will be...

    you cant save someone who you cant see or hear or know they are drowning as they pass out from smoke inhalation or more likely heat exhaustion.

    phone towers are unable to carry the load of all the calls
    because the area is so remote it only takes 1 single tower to be knocked out and entire regions go down from over crowding (DNS cell tower[they should be able to switch the towers to only accept emergency calls in an emergency to keep up SMS messaging alerts for updates and advisories.)

    life guards
    radios ...

    anyone in those areas who is surfing the internet need to have their cell phone taken off them until they are out of the area.
    because Hawaii(my kids are bored im keeping them calm by letting them surf the internet) doesn't really fix that issue.

    nice if you can get it
    but wont work for those in the areas who have no cell access(DNS cell tower) because the government has failed to act.

    so your saying you would prefer you and your family(or maybe one of your kids who swam out to far & passed out from breathing in all the plastic smoke from the burning wall of cars you created) to die than to have bruised ego ?
    thats a bit out there.
    ... happy to sacrifice a child rather than getting a bruised ego ...
    wow
    i see that is common morality in some countrys, but not as common in most western countries.
     
    RainbowSingularity, Jan 1, 2020
    #16
  20. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Mallacoota
    very expensive area
    lots of holiday home owners with quite a bit of money
    lots of business connections

    sitting down wind of one of the most fire prone areas of the world where bush fires are normal and expected.

    people are probably falling over each other throwing cash at people to try and buy a holiday home there...

    the council need to start waving the stick(although they are probably interwoven to the obstacle) and get these people to stand up and put a community action group together

    "because rich feral" is probably not ideal

    no local officials want to risk their main donors by telling rich people to sort their shit out

    lost half way between a gated community & not a gated community ...

    it probably should have been under a "resident only" order for starters with a 24/7 community staffed fire watch with evacuation plan printed and sitting on every houses dinner table.

    "she'l be right" ...
     
    RainbowSingularity, Jan 1, 2020
    #17
  21. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    no cell/internet access
    no red cross registration(they have to self register by going to the red cross web site)
     
    RainbowSingularity, Jan 1, 2020
    #18
  22. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    what i would have done ?
    rallied all the children adults and sick into tents on the waters edge with wet clothes to breach through
    got all the able bodied adults to move all drinking water to the sand with the children
    moved all vehicles to the farthest side one side only
    then set up teams to start ferrying the children and some adults to a single point on the beach further up wind to one side where it is unable to get hit by fire.
    also i would have got everyone to move all their flammable liquids to a single spot in the middle of a large field and left them there in a pile covered with sand or dirt.
    sand would be easier.
    then got people to register all those in their group to a ledger at the boat ramp as teams were dispatched to observe and report on the main road in while using the surf life saving and boat radios to set up comms to advise coast guard and police that a rescue evacuation was required.
    as an interim evacuation point was in progress and give them the GPS coordinates and land position of the observers, children and boat ferry points and destinations.

    meanwhile
    1 team would be collecting food rations and moving them to the children's camp point

    the sand spit would be a good location for the interim evacuation point where coast guard can locate them with a boat radio on that point.
    while uploading numbers and status to coast guard.

    the best oxygen level is at the waters edge
    there would be tents being kept wet by adults minding the children checking they were all inside the tents with wet clothes to breath through.

    i would not be loading boats up with children sending them off shore by themselves without notifying the coast guard a rescue must be made to collect them unless people were dying already
    1 boat over turning and all would be lost unable to be found.

    because the only single road in goes for soo long through bush i would not dispatch a team to stand on point because they would become isolated and would likely be a death sentence.
    the point team would be on the top side of each group of houses up the coast reporting as the people were self evacuating to the beach.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    RainbowSingularity, Jan 1, 2020
    #19
  23. RainbowSingularity

    RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    soo
    my F_ing idiots comment was about loosing a boat load of children
    or loosing a single child drowning when there was no need to escalate to that level of risk to survival chance

    children driving boats around in zero visibility likely to chop up(head injury's knocking unconscious in zero vis) other children into pieces as they run over them... etc ...

    its to late then
     
    RainbowSingularity, Jan 1, 2020
    #20
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