Aung San Suu Kyi.. The Fall of a Human Rights Icon..

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Bells, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    hee hee.. now you are being absurd...
    if you wish to be taken seriously you have to do better than that.
     
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You still don't get it... the election , her office , the democratic government is a sham...the military are still very much in control. ( if running a country in a state of constant conflict is considered as "control".)
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    The day she was sworn in to Parliament in 2012 and started to act in a complicit manner to cover for the military in this obscene saga.

    Really, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

    You literally have not read a single link I provided or read what I said. That is evident in the manner in which you have attributed things to me that I have not said and made these wild accusations and even taken to propaganda type rhetoric of Muslim nations posing a risk to the Burmese Buddhist.

    Something something about your concerted effort to keep demanding more and more evidence, your failure to read and understand what has been posted and your failure to support any of your emotion laden water carrying for Aung San Suu Kyi that amounts to your repeated excuses and fall back that it's a new democracy and she was imprisoned in her home for years, applies here.

    In other words, you are in absolutely no position to make any demands given your utter failure to support any of your arguments here and instead, have resorted to ridiculous conspiracies and propaganda.

    I never actually did. All the links I provided discuss it explicitly.

    Here was your suggestion:

    At no time did you mention granting them statehood or citizenship. Instead, you went on this spiel about the Burmese

    My suggestion:

    You then went on this spiel and whine about how the Burmese do not want the Rohingya there and then came out with this:

    You were actively advocating for their removal from their ancestral homes and lands and placing them in a sort of guarded camp and making them UN citizens (which does not even exist) and you railed against the fact that these people just want to go home and whined about how the Buddhists don't want them there and then your anti-Muslim propaganda started to enter the fray.

    I need to ask, who do you think you are fooling here?

    Manus Island and the Nauru detention camps are a blight on this country and its government and have been described as a gross abuse on people's human rights, QQ and the UN has been on Australia's case because the conditions and the Australian Government's policy are consistently in breach of international law. And you tout this as a solution on a bigger scale?

    I ask again, what the hell is wrong with you?
     
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  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    so what/who do you think I am?

    ( go for it, leave no stone un turned I will not hold it against you nor complain to site administration ( uhm mods)

    what is the legal term.... uhm... ah yes... "with out prejudice"
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    22,775
    Here is what I said in regards to your touting the Manus Island and Nauru detention camps that the UN and human rights organisations have described as abusing people's fundamental human rights:

    I do not know what or who you are. I asked what was wrong with you to tout Manus Island and Nauru as a type of alternative to people facing ethnic cleansing and genocide.

    If you want a flame war, I'd suggest you go elsewhere.

    Ermm..

    I don't think you understand what that term actually means. In other words, that doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    what the hell are you talking about.... your above post is nonsense.
    here it is again
    At no time am I suggesting that they remain detained. I am however suggesting that the responsibility for them would fall under the UN and not Australia as they would be global citizens instead of being in asylum limbo.
    Dealing with Australia's breach of International law/human rights can then be dealt with without causing further suffering to the detainees.

    Focus on the victim first then deal with the perpetrator...

    I entered this thread in the hope to shift the focus to the victims, immediate issues.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    without prejudice
    a phrase written on correspondence to indicate that the contents are not to be founded upon in a court, particularly as an admission of liability. It is given effect in both England and Scotland but subject to some subtle exceptions.
    In common parlance it is often used to offer amnesty from prosecution from what is said.

    so go for it, with out prejudice, as all you have been doing is attacking me and not the problem at hand...so I am offering you to get it off your chest, uhm spit it out, give it your best shot and hopefully later when you have lowered your emotional heat we can get some proper discussion happening.

    At least though If you are going to attack me do it properly..getting your facts right sort of thingo, would go a long way...
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    22,775
    You still don't understand what it actually means.

    I'll give you a hint.. something something about 'evidence' applies here..

    As I said, if you want a flame war, go elsewhere. If you go out of your way to mock and diminish survivors of ethnic cleansing and genocide as you have done in this thread, don't whine and try and make yourself the victim when you get called out on it.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I will write one thing though in all honesty.
    I have been searching for a solution to the Manus and Nauru Island problem for years. Ever since the government went all paranoid about stopping the boats and violated just about everything I knew to be Australian values.
    I want to thank you Bells for provoking a solution to an incredibly vexatious issue for the Australian government and it's people.
    If indeed the UN was chartered to take responsibility for the asylum seekers then the burden would be shared by all member nations and not just Australia including the asylum seekers nation of origin.

    How they could do this is a detail to be worked out... but it is a solution well beyond the BS that is currently happening.
    Again thanks...
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    someone posted about evidence... please provide links to support your accusation.
    mock and diminish specifically...
    or I will report you .. even if you are a mod....

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ))
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    22,775
    Report away.

    This is where that discussion started:

    To which I responded with:

    Which you then saw fit to respond with:

    Not only did you directly infer that the survivors were making things up and that I was apparently believing them.. You then decided to declare that what these people were describing in a quote you pulled from who knows where, was in exaggerated graphic detail and was an "old media trick"..

    Because apparently, I should not believe what the survivors are reporting? Do you think the survivors are exaggerating what they are experiencing? You dodged those questions when I initially asked them and it is pretty obvious as to why.

    The irony is that you were begging for a flame war, declaring how you would not report it.. When I refused and told you that if you wanted a flame war, you should go elsewhere, you then try this tactic.

    Look QQ, you aren't the first to pull this sort of rubbish. And you won't be the last. You really are very transparent and frankly, you are really bad at it.

    I do not particularly care if you do not believe that this is a genocide or ethnic cleansing. But when you make such claims in the face of absolute evidence to the contrary, you are required to provide evidence to support your claims. Instead, you have kept demanding more and more evidence and then refused to read it or declared it not valid because of the dates, you even got the years of when she went into Parliament wrong, in your aim to discredit all of the reports and studies that have advised there is a genocide and ethnic cleansing taking place, while failing to acknowledge that since she entered parliament in 2012, she has done nothing whatsoever to speak up for these people, but instead, has stymied every other effort since then for the UN to investigate further. Put simply, I rather believe Yale University, Human Rights Watch, Fortify Rights, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, the UN, the ISCI than the guy who has attempted to use legal terms incorrectly and does not even know when Aung San Suu Kyi was first voted into Parliament (you couldn't even get the year right!).. You basically declared all of those reports that have been linked throughout these threads as being invalid for various reasons or tried to question their validity. For example:

    When the report is copyright and dated with the year it was published:

    © International State Crime Initiative 2015

    Not to mention the year it was published also appeared in the link... This has been the sort of rubbish you have been pulling throughout this thread.

    If that rubbish behaviour was not enough, you also inserted propaganda into your argument by claiming that the Buddhist majority were in danger in Myanmar from Muslims and tried to prattle on about Indonesia's Muslim population and said that they could wipe the Burmese Buddhist out, not to mention ISIL in the Philippines.. Which came after your question about whether the Buddhist majority were xenophobic despite the fact that the Rohingya are Burmese, that they wanted a separatist state, and some weird comment about the Rohingya being the ones who wanted racial purity, despite the fact that they have begged to have their citizenship to Burma returned to them and it is the Burmese Buddhist who legislate to ensure their own racial purity by imposing marriage laws and whatnot on ethnic minorities like the Rohingya... I could go on and on about how you have diminished their plight and took part in victim blaming.

    And I wont even touch on this gem:

    The people detained on Manus Island and Nauru have no freedom of movement and are literally imprisoned there. So when you tout those facilities as being examples of what the UN should establish in Bangladesh for the Rohingya after removing them all from Myanmar, you were literally suggesting they remain detained.

    So ya, report away.
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Pregnant women beaten to death, their newborns pulled from their bodies and stomped on, men and boys locked into houses and those houses set alight, children and babies decapitated and their bodies burnt. Others hacked to death or shot as they tried to flee. Helicopter gunships firing on them, their villages razed to the ground. Because all that wasn't enough, they then placed landmines were then placed to try to kill off those who managed to flee to the border.

    Do you believe that going into such unverifiable detail is going to help your cause?
    Oh don't get me wrong, there is every possibility that such atrocities and much worse have been committed.
    Seeing video of internment cages faced by Rohingya refugees years ago caught by local "pirates" and how they were used to torture the men and women is enough to know what is possible in Myanmar.

    and no doubt disembowelment and flaying them whilst alive, not to mention cannibalism is most likely as well...

    Is there any other graphic detail you wish to use to describe your horror at what human beings are capable of?



    The article if published in 2015 is obsolete when considering recent events. (needs some serious updating)


    A militant group has warned of a "war" against the Myanmar Government, taking responsibility for attacks on police stations that have left more than 100 people dead.

    On Friday, militants from the Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA), which claims to be fighting for the rights of Rohingya people — a Muslim minority long-persecuted by Myanmar's Buddhist majority — attacked about 25 police posts in the country's west.​
    src: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-28/rohingya-militant-group-warns-of-war-against-myanmar/8850406

    This attacks on police stations is credited with triggering the military back lash that has occurred thus driving the exodus out of Myanmar.

    Prior to these attacks was there a rush for the border?

    As the ARSA has managed to kill numerous police officers I think I might be correct in stating that.

    Myanmar is on the brink of a major conflict and you fail to see it....

    rubbish.. I think not...
    I am not even going to attempt to unscramble your egg on the above quote...

    The ARNO (reg: 1984) have stated as part of their agenda the ideal of securing a separate state under a federation.

    Check your facts...

    If you believe that questioning the testimony of the victim is mocking and diminishment then fine by all means.. think so..
    but fact is
    The ARSA did attack 25 police posts on the 28th or August 2017 and have claimed responsibility. They have performed a "terrorist act" and can be rightfully declared as a terrorist organization. Do you deny this?
    They are threatening war against the Buddhist majority. Do you deny this?
    In doing so they are soliciting support from all over the Muslim world to their cause. Do you deny this?

    Do you understand the very real risk that this poses to the future of Myanmar?
    I am sure Suu certainly does...
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    But I am suggesting a UN sponsored way off Manus and Nauru but your hostility prevents you from reading that.

    I got to admire your passion though...

    I built a web site called charter48.com a few years ago, the idea being that individual people could sign up to the UDHR and receive a certificate for doing so but due to lack of community interest I abandoned the project.. perhaps one day I shall attempt to do it again.
    Maybe you would like to take the idea up...
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  17. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Why? Because they are jeopardizing their sovereignty by committing war crimes?
     
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    No , because the militia would consider it a betrayal and react accordingly. (opinion)
     
  19. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    I thought Aung was a human rights icon, willing even to go to jail for what she believes. Why is she acting like she's scared of the military? I wouldn't blame her for wanting to avoid imprisonment or worse, but she has a reputation for taking a principled stand. A principled person would oppose war crimes or just resign.
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    22,775
    You do understand that that was in response to your ridiculous claims that they were being "allowed to escape", yes? Because suffering through such atrocities does not equal or amount to "being allowed to escape", hence this vital sentence in that post in response to your ridiculous claim that they were being "allowed to escape" and worse still, that they may owe their lives to Aung San Suu Kyi:

    Tell me something QQ, in what reality do you exist in that you see that as "being allowed to escape"?

    How many other ways are you going to try to change the subject and twist yourself into a pretzel?

    Oh wait, here we go..
    Welp.. This is getting even more ridiculous!

    Did you not read anything that I have said or posted?

    In October of 2012, the Myanmar military, police force, local militia groups and local Buddhists (and the many who were bused in) attacked various Rohingya villages and committed a massacre. Over 120,000 Rohingya fled Myanmar and the exodus because of the ethnic cleansing has been ongoing since that date. What you are reading about currently (and obviously the words you have been reading 'do not compute') is an escalation of the ethnic cleansing and genocide that has been ongoing for years.

    Aung San Suu Kyi became a member of Parliament in Burma in May of 2012.

    The ARSA formed in response to the massacres that began in 2012 and their target was the police.. Not civilians. The Burmese military responded with ethnic cleansing of civilians and razing everything to the ground.

    And on the brink?

    Frankly, the ignorance you espouse in this thread is cringe worthy.

    It's not on the brink. We are now at the full blown genocide and ethnic cleansing stage. You are carrying on as though this just started.

    The first sentence of their aims, goals and ideology:

    The right of self-determination of the Rohingya people must be given within a Burmese federation

    The rest of it then follows:

    preservation of their (Rohingya’s) history and cultural heritage without prejudice to the growth and preservation of other religious and indigenous culture in Arakan; condemnation of religious persecution by the military; repatriation of Rohingya refugees from their places of refuge; human resource development particularly in socio-cultural, economic, educational and technical fields; establishment of a welfare society based on equality, liberty, democracy, human rights and freedom for all peoples; “peaceful co-existence” with Rakhine community (Buddhist of Arakan) and among all other peoples in Arakan as well as in the whole of the country; joint struggle with the Burmese opposition and democratic forces; support to landmine ban treaty; support of the rights of Rohingya women and girls to education, health and economic empowerment; educating the youths of the dangers of drugs (including AIDS infection); protection of environment, including forests, rivers, wetland, Coastline Ocean and to save their land from unsustainable logging, killing of endangered species, all forms of pollution, and over fishing and to preserve a green haven for their children and the world; support for future sustainable, appropriate, clean, and beneficial development to the common people.”

    Can you please link where they have stated that "their agenda is securing a separate state under a federation"?

    Or is this another case of you not understanding terminology, such as "right to self determination" means in regards to the law and human rights?

    Do you think "self determination" means "securing a separate state"?

    They aren't threatening war..

    They are fighting back after decades of oppression and massacres, ethnic cleansing and genocide and they attacked the organisation that took part in said massacres, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Are they correct to do so? I don't know. Frankly, if someone burnt my village, hacked up my family, I might consider picking up sticks and stones and fighting back, which is essentially what they did.
    Oh look, more Islamophobic propaganda.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    22,775
    You suggested the UN leased land from Bangladesh, remove the Rohingya out of Myanmar and put them in a "camp" of some sort on leased land from Bangladesh, made them UN citizens (which does not even exist) and then compared it to Australia's deal with Nauru and co.

    The lack of interest would probably have been because people do not and cannot "sign up to the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights". It isn't a club.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Good question... a principled person would unless they are being manipulated using extreme means.

    ie. holding a couple of hundred civilians prisoner at gun point...with the threat of execution if Aung doesn't do as she is told. **

    I very strongly believe that Aung and her Government have no control over the military, and that she is remaining in her position to do the best she can under the circumstances. Prepared to sacrifice reputation for the greater good...

    **Note to Bells... please see the ie. abrev. it states that the above is only an example of what MAY be happening not what IS happening.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You know Bells by the over using of these buzz words and phrases you destroy their importance and value.
    You are accusing me of Islamophobia way too casually...
    I currently live with an Iranian asylum seeker, sharing a two bedroom flat.
     

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