Attitudes Toward Atheists & Beliefs About Atheists

Discussion in 'Religion' started by StrangerInAStrangeLand, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    Where I am now & other places I have lived in the US it is quite common.

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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i remember this man who was talking about religion and he was pushy about it, not as in a let me share with you info about god but obnoxious.

    what i noticed was that his intent was not about god so much about his fundie version of god with an added touch of megalomania of himself. so in essence, he was pushing himself and his values (far right) as god. there was an intent to subjugate any other idea or religion as inferior. i felt intensely and personally violated, like he intended that, like they want to crowd you out or infect/force you with theirs so no other is allowed to exist. something about his attitude made me wish the ground would open up and swallow him.

    it's a pattern. same type of person/nature as my family. like i would know if they had met, they would even unconsciously identify with eachother. it's like a breed/type of person. different race, different looks, same inside.

    now, to be clear, there are far right like this who are exactly the same except they aren't christian or religious so it's not so much the religion as much as the type of person.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
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  5. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    My last sentence was referring to the immediate preceding paragraph--preaching of extremists vs. fruitful discussion on science forums--not the random questioning about belief.

    I've lived for a couple of years in a few Southeastern U.S. locales--a misguided consequence of my love for the works of Flannery O'Conner, E.A. Poe, and Faulkner--and traveled throughout a good deal over the years. European bands often have this fascination with touring the American South and I'm obliged to... oblige.

    It was never all that clear to me whether Southern Fundies animosity towards me was a product of my not being God fearin', or more a consequence of what that implies to them, i.e., having "New York values," not being sufficiently racist, homophobic, sexist, and the like. Once, while biking through a fairly posh neighborhood in Asheville, NC, with my dog, Parmalee, a woman started shouting at us from her yard, telling me to put my dog on a leash (his discipline and devotion to the task at hand were unparalleled) and calling us a "menace" and a blight on the neighborhood. I told her to "fuck off" and continued on my way. Two minutes later, her husband was literally trying to run me over with a pickup truck.

    I think a lot of those guys are just itching to antagonize the Other, and will use any excuse to justify their actions.
     
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  7. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^

    Sorry if I misunderstood. Some atheists seem to be insulated from what seem common experiences to me.

    ^^^

    I have had such experiences in the South. And the North, West & Midwest US.

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  8. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I've recounted this tidbit countless times, but I'll do so again: Douglas Hofstadter (in G.E.B, I think) recounts how his uncle, Albert Hofstadter--a noted Heidegger scholar and translator--would often try to get Douglas into Heidegger. Douglas, whom I have a lot more respect for than Daniel Dennett, notes that to this day, he can't make any sense whatsoever out of Heidegger. And he's a brilliant guy, it's simply that his mind doesn't work that way.

    An awful lot of people (and I won't point fingers) don't seem to appreciate this.

    For me, Maturana and Varela's The Tree of Knowledge is like this. There's something there, and it often seems relevant to whatever it is that I am thinking about, but I just can't quite... get it.

    Wait--what does this have to do with social stratification? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

    Can you imagine all of the disciplines--mostly in the social sciences, but also including literary criticism, strains of philosophy, etc.--that simply would not exist were everybody wholly incapable, or unwilling, to indulge? That's not what i really mean to say, but it really has more to do with a critical examination of one's presuppositions and the willingness to abandon such.

    Vicki Hearne is the one writer who has exerted the most influence upon how i think. Her work pre-dates what is now called Animal Studies, or Critical Animal Studies, which incorporate everything from ethology to biological sciences and neuroscience to psychoanalysis, literary and cultural criticism, and philosophy (mostly Continental but also the more thought-prone strains of Analytic, from Wittgenstein to Stanley Cavell to Cora Diamond).

    This work demands a suspension, especially amongst academic types who typically have little or no real world experience working with animals, and a coming to appreciate their cultural manifestations (from games and politics to arts and music, and even something akin to religion). This really demands a letting go of the prescribed assumptions.

    And, yeah, there's really no need for Devil's Advocacy, or the granting of powers, faculties, attributes--just the simple acknowledgement that Morgan's Canon is as much a "law" as is Occam's Razor (it ain't, and it often stifles critical thinking and the necessary blind leaps).

    In "The Etiquette of Freedom," Gary Snyder describes how "will"and "wild" have a common derivation, yet have come to mean something almost wholly antithetical to one another. Especially in such contexts where they're trying, or pretending, to be real precise-like.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  9. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  10. Michael 345 Bali 1 week here 2 to go Valued Senior Member

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    Without atheist god bothers would run amok untrammelled.
    Not a good idea
    Why don't atheist spend time questioning satansS existence? Easy - get rid of god BINGO Satan goes automatically

    Without god Satan wouldn't exist

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  11. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  12. Michael 345 Bali 1 week here 2 to go Valued Senior Member

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    When you get to the end of the choices is there a "None of the above" or "Other - please specify" options?

    One option I would like to see - "Any god who loves me and is a aircraft mechanic - can fix the current problem - and can fly to plane to the nearest airport"

    Would I have enough time to type all that in?

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  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    When you fall over a cliff you're going to grasp at every straw - but that doesn't mean there's anything there to stop you from falling.
     
  14. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From Stranger Post 108
    I would rather encourage the pilot to to take care of the problem.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You know, religious types always say things like "there are no atheists in foxholes" and "When your plane starts crashing you're going to start praying to god." But give any religious type a choice of a parachute or a Bible, and they're going to choose the parachute every time. Because while they believe in God when there's nothing better to do, they know, deep down, that reality isn't amenable to even the most heartfelt of pleas.
     
  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  17. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  18. Michael 345 Bali 1 week here 2 to go Valued Senior Member

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    1/
    Surely fuck logic should be the rally call of theist

    2/
    Surely the advice to children, when confronted with a atheist, to let adults handle them, falls down when the only adult present is the atheist

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  19. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder how many believers there would be if religious notions were not introduced until a person became an adult.
    In most cultures, religion concepts are taught starting long before adulthood. In the USA it usually starts prior to age ten.​

    It seems like brainwashing due to being introduced long before a person has developed the mental abilities of even a teenager.

    The very concept of the god of most religions must be viewed as supernatural.
     
  20. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    The atheists I know do not evangelize the POV. The theists I know tend to evangelize when they become aware of my being an atheist, but few do so unless the subject of religion is introduced.

    Perhaps they assume that others are believers unless given contrary evidence.​

    I think the start of religion was belief in a spirit being associated with many observable objects & phenomena: A tree spirit, a sky spirit, a sun spirit, etcetera.

    Being a cynic as well as an atheist, I believe it became organized by Shamen claiming special knowledge in order to gain respect and/or special privileges/power in their culture.​

    I tend to believe that he typical minister, priest, rabbi, etcetera is sincere, but question the sincerity of those higher up in religious hierarchies.

    Note that the evangelists who preach on television collect huge amounts of money, a lot of which contributes to a much better than average standard of living.

    Their motivation & sincerity seems very questionable.​
     
  21. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ///
    I strongly suspect most priests, ministers & rabbis are not sincere. They seem to me to be lying conniving con artists. Why think they might be sincere? I suspect most people do not truly believe but they pretend to because they believe that their friends, family & peers believe.

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  22. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Atheists tend to be given bum raps.

    I & the atheists I know have an excellent code of behavior, which is more than I can say about many of the believers I know.

    BTW: Believers expect to be rewarded for their belief. I wonder how many would exhibit good behavior if not promised a reward after death.​

    While modern believers exhibit good behavior, historically many of them looked bad.

    Consider the inquisition & the Salem witch trials as prime examples. These activities were sanctioned by church authorities.

    One almost humorous act was weighting an accused witch & tossing her in a lake. If she drowned, it proved she was innocent & would be rewarded in the hereafter. Otherwise she was executed, usually being burned at a stack.

     
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Usually, anyone different is given a bum rap but atheists get it worst than most.
    There is a play The Only Thing Worse You Could Have Told Me about attitudes toward & treatment of homosexuals. I am considering writing a similar 1 about atheists.

    Probably about 98% of the time, she drowned.

    Tho there is much in scripture about behavior, the determining factor is belief. Murderers, rapists & child abusers go to heaven if they believe correctly & say 1 small prayer any time before they die.

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018

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