Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Kellisness, Mar 11, 2011.
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Should be a "probably\maybe" choice.
That was rather obvious. I pointed out your hypocrisy in starting this thread with hostile and trollish intent, then posing as if you were the mature and thoughtful one.
Your tone here and language demonstrates your own biased crusade against atheists. Your wide ranging blanket statements are typical of someone holding a grudge towards a whole group, in the same way you accuse atheists. But in defence of sciforums I have tried a number of times to debate on other religious forums, and that is if I can get registered, usually I am not admitted once I admit on the aplication that I am atheist. That's OK but when I peruse their debates I see massive vilification of the atheist position but with no chance that anyone more informed can respond appropriately, such is the result of censorship, much like Colonel Gaddafi using his state TV. But when I can post I am overwhelmed with vast numbers of vitriolic replies - the atheist reactions to theists on this forum seem quite mild in comparison.
At least here theists can air their perspectives and attempt a defence against the atheist. Some of the more atheist miltant attitudes I see here seem more as a result of intense frustration that there appears no way to convince theists to think more clearly, and hence the human tendency to become increasingly angry. I have personally experienced those feelings and have let rip occasionally, even though that is extremly rare nowadays. I have come to accept that the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" seems so relevant to the atheist/theist debate. And here I feel qualified as I was a very active Christian some decades ago and did argue fiercely for the Christain perspective.
Ultimately the theist position is irrational and indefensible. There is and never has been any credible evidence for the existence of gods. The theist position at the end of any such discussion always reverts to the "I have received direct personal communication from God, so I know he exists", which of course cannot be verified and is indistinguishable from simple delusion. Delusion is quite concrete with extensive occureences, the alternative remains pure imaginative fantasy. How to make the theist see this is the route of atheist frustration and understandable millitancy.
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Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
I have only compassion for you, Kellisness. Anyone who was compelled to believe this as well as "thou shall not kill", would be driven gradually insane. Making your brain follow two contradictory orders is what did it for HAL9000.
My crusade goes as far as attempting to destroy ignorance, reveal illogical and archaic practices and hope teach people about things that they support but know nothing about. If there was a call to arms for atheists I would be there, but if anything of the sort happened it would be a purely intellectual call to arms, as we have no hierarchical structure there are no tyrants at the top ordering the heads of theists to be brought to him. In the same way, the most well known voices of atheism are those of scientists, philosophers and television personalities, so we're hardly being lead by military personnel.
I appreciate your candor but I really don't care how you perceive OR if you dismiss me. I'm completely apathetic to the colorful metaphors you chose to make use of. In fact, I do so much dismissing myself I can hardly blame you for it yourself. I just do it more objectively than most. (which is an understatement of epic proportions on this forum)
or vise versa. (shrug)
Hazing is hazing though. On this forum it has a ritualistic quality (meaning extremely repetitive un-moderated harassments which defy forum rules.
I have never whined about getting my own way.
I traditionally don't harass the moderators with yours or others harasment because 1. I recognize the bias, 2. I really don't care. 3. It would be fruitless any.
Trial by Fire
That's a perception.
My function is to point out the facts and behaviors objectively even if you don't like it.
Generalities and Sterotypes are almost always true for a reason. Properly using them means not applying them to individuals or using them in a derogatory fashion.
That's because of the atheist reputation for being dogmatic, aggressive and what I can only describe as arrogant and foul. I would personally give you a chance...I'd give everyone a chance but you can't really blame them for flinching when they've been hit over and over and over and over. I'd suggest making friends like River-wind does and getting an endorsement from one of the members.
It's the same thing here just the other side of the extremist fense.
I originally joined for the Star Wars Star Trek debate but I have a large interest of science as well. I merely disappointed at the extremism but I quickly got used to it and it's taught me an immeasurable amount about atheist, what they believe, and they're behavioral tendencies. It was also here that I cultivated an interest for logical deduction. Once I realized there was an objective method for debate in the form of rules I read and studied everything I could and committed them to memory.
Yet I cannot conscious-ably condone either.
When I first got here I allowed emotionalism to over take me within debate but I found it led to errors and it's apart of my principles to admit to those mistakes (which I found was not an entirely bad feeling) yet it revealed flaws in my thinking, being here has served a purpose in mending those flaws and strengthening my shields and apathy against the emotion others use to justify their position. I let go of the desire for reputation and to goaded by peer pressure to which I'm now immune. It was always my agenda to seek to remove myself from the 80 percentile. The percentage of people that standby and watch while injustice happens instead of acting upon it. As a result I move more swiftly in favor of injustice rather than become a clone/slave to popularity and social pressure of the mob mentality.
It doesn't bother me to listen to common flaws of theist.
I know they are often true but I remember they aren't a necessary truth. It doesn't like wise bother me to dictate the flaws of atheist. They are not a necessary truth either.
I'm not even a christian you idiot.
You are a Consciousnesser.
Care to cite an example, given that this is a fairly serious accusation.
First, I would hope you don't harass the moderators.
Secondly, I would appreciate some evidence to support your accusation of my harassment.
Yet you complain about the burning, and refer to it as harassment. Go figure.
Then you are an atheist with regard to the Christian God.
Brahman dreams us all, our soap operas, our lives… We are his consciousness…
We can learn this from the Advaita Vedanta; however, the dream notion, if it be held, must be carried through and through, and, so, If so, the old Indian dream writings on dream paper cannot be seen as real or meaningful ideas when other dream writings on dream papers are not, for all of these would be but writ on water with the feathery quill of smoke and fog.
You're a pensioner.
Except for you, of course.
im pretty sure theists got crusades down to a T
A lot of atheists are on a crusade. That's just one of the major similarities between them and religious fundies.
You're a troll.
And environmentalists, Democrats, Republicans, union organizers, animal rights activists, women's rights advocates, civil rights advocates, anti-shoe campaigners, various independence movements, socialists, communists, fascists, anarchists...
Separate names with a comma.