Atheist = Closet theist

Everything we feel is result of chemical reactions that is not disputed.

Those chemical reactions are innate, thus the 'effect' they produce is innate and 'intentional'.

Absence of 'love' chemicals in a species dependant on love for survival would see its elimination. Thus love chemicals are present in those species to begin with, thus innate.

Is there a kind of love not dependant on chemical reactions? I can not be taught to love my neighbour, it has to be experienced and 'felt'. The chemicals are required in all cases.

 

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That is the sort of thing that the hippies used to say, to sell LSD.

--- Ron.

 

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The problem is that "love" is a generic term.

So mother-child is love, man-woman is love, etc.

I like to differentiate between self-oriented and nonself-oriented love.

e.g. in mother-child or man-woman love, which is actually targeted to survival of species is more a "chemically" maintained kind of love.

whereas a nonself-oriented love, i.e. altruism, sympathy, compassion, especially when directed towards people not intimately connected to us, is a learned behavior.

In my example of feral children for example, hypothetically, if they grew up in the wild without any human contact whatsoever, they would still have the sexual and maternal instincts. This, however, would not be the "love" one would feel in a civilised society where concepts of love are much more complex and mediated or overlaid by many other factors besides instinct.

 

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It still brings us back to this though, if not innate where did it come from, learned from who how when? Other animals barely demonstrate compassion (though elephants, dolphins and primates appear to do so) so who did early man learn it from, how did their little tribes survive in absence of it if not there from the start?

My 2.5yr sold has always demonstrated strong compassionate streak, unusual for one so young. But he seems 'naturally' to care about others distress. My daughter however is not so afflicted. They have had same environment and upbringing and daughter is older so should be more advanced in this dept but she is not. She is 'normal' for her age, and my son is 'unusual'. There is deffinately a nature issue here aided by nurture.

 

Ah! now you go into the sphere of evolution and I promised I would not display my ignorance in that field.

Any evolutionary scientists here?

 

lol, that makes two of us then!

I just tend to think a 'thing' does not come from nowhere especially when the species survival depends upon it. Hence the beauty and sheer impressiveness of evolution, too successful to be 'accidental' it is perfect in design. It accounts for most everything.

 

Only her rights as a human being.

How very intolerant of Catholics, will they eventually evolve past the Bronze Age?

Or, they finally came to the realization that religious dogma is just that; dogma.

If not a Catholic, then who?

Indoctrination from a young age secures religion, not much else.

No, we're not.

There are many other ways to be social without religion.

No, it degrades humans and must be discarded immediately.

Sins have no meaning in the real world.

Since morality has nothing to do with religion, I fail to see your point.

Gods are cruel and immoral, we would prosper without their so called 'morality.'

No one need to go to great lengths to justify religion as being dangerous, history will show that.

How exactly am I indoctrinated and how is it unavoidable?

 

What a load of crap. Theists will say and believe anything.

 

Prove it otherwise. I'm open to changing my opinion.

 

You're lack of education and overactive imagination are showing again. Please try to curb one and initiate the other, not particularily in that order.

 

why are you attributing this persepctive to 'theists'?

This is not my perspective.

You're just Ad Homing again, no argument so Ad Hom.

 

oh really, so when I state that love is innate , I am demonstrating an overactive imagination, when Sam says it is not innate but learned she is a theist talking crap.

Seems you are just a man with female issues as you contradict both arguments when 'one' not 'neither' is correct.

 

No, you're not, especially when they contradict your religious beliefs, as so many things have, and you've not budged an inch.

 

So you cannot prove it?

btw, Islam does not have an opinion on love or violence being innate or learned.

 

What a surprise.

Hands up, please, all those who come here to budge; budgers urgently required.

--- Ron.

 

If they would take the Bible literally then they should have read the part where it says that we should respect doctors, but the sects aren't taking it literally, no one is, since taking it literally would bear no meaning. Instead they read it with their own ideas in mind. There will allways be interpretations on the Bible, since it isn't literally, there aren't any claims in the Bible that it is either, instead it states that the scriptures are good for different things. The Bible is the truth to man, but man can't understand it fully.

Jesus said that he talked in images so that not all will understand (not all will hear who has ears, and not all will see who has eyes) but when he returns he will speak in clean words.

 

I was going to start a thread on that exact subject, I have seen no budgers or budgering! (They are closet budged!)

 

There was already this:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=55011

--- Ron.

 

so you did, Cato recently made a bizarre claim that my threads were poo because they had no conclusion, I'd like to see one that has, although those that do usually can be resolved by googling the question thus not much point having a thread about it. Mind you his thread about himself was pretty conclusive.

 

I think i'll take your cue.
I might very well be wasting my time between those who blame every essential social behaviour on evolution and all the detrimental ones on religion and those who think all their opinions and motives are entirely their own, as if every individual existed in a vacuum.

You’re a real eye-opener. I’ll go find something better to do with my free time… like gouging myself with a spoon or start collecting dust bunnies or something…

Take care!