Atheist = Closet theist

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Theoryofrelativity, Aug 12, 2006.

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  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I am secure in the belief an invisible pink dragon lives in my attic - however, you are insecure in the fact I can't show you the dragon? And it makes sense?
     
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  3. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    Since there is no proof either way, there is no insecurity. It's just irrelevance. Just as I can invent a word to describe something that doesn't exist. Irrelevant.

    I doubt that. You would have to prove it. Most people think of God a sentient creator of everything, I am sure.

    God effectively does not exist due to no evidence and since, as you claim theists don't know what God is. Which I think is BS as I think it is widely considered amongst atheists, theists and the dictionary that God is the sentient creator of the universe. If theists don't know what 'God' is, then it is nothing but a word, and irrelevant.

    It's not safe to assume that at all. But since it's impossible to know I will let it slide. Certainly in modern society, the stronger a societies belief in God, the greater the detriment to that society.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yup. A concept only makes sense if you believe in it.
    Without belief, any concept is meaningless.
    It may not be wholly accurate, but it may be perceived as such.
    e.g. I believe I will be alive next week, hence I have an appointment for next Thursday.

    One who neither accepts nor rejects the concept has no secure view of the concept.

    e.g. I believe in evolution is a secure concept.

    But, I neither believe nor disbelieve in evolution pending availability of concrete irrefutable evidence is an insecurity in concept.

    edit: to be fair, belief is not evidence of rightness (the above example could well be I believe in creationism).
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2006
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  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Religious dogma.

    Look to Creationism and Intelligent Design as a wholesale denial of reality and the end to understanding.

    Only on my beach and in my parking lot.
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    So, belief is the only property a concept requires to be valid? The concepts' existance or non-existence has nothing to do with it?

    Have you ever noticed how potholes are the perfect shape for the puddles of water they hold?

    No one has ever demonstrated the existence of gods, hence I assume no one ever will. Let's both wait and see what happens by next Thursday whether or not our assumptions come to fruition.

    I'm pretty sure we established a while back you didn't understand evolution, so your opinion is baseless.

    And, the concept and the process of evolution will continue, despite your beliefs.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think you missed my edit. A concept lives only as long as someone believes in it.
    A concept may exist, but if no one believes in it, it is meaningless.
    e.g. A person who is blind from birth has no concept of color. Does color exist? Not for him.


    Yes, so does the shape of the puddle give a clue to the pothole or not? Would you say that the puddle is an indication of the size and shape of the pothole? Or would you say that the puddle and pothole are unrelated?


    Ha ha you are so (not) funny.


    I was attempting an explanation you would understand.
    My delusions are public knowledge.

    Exactly.

    edit: the last was a little equivocal sounding, so I want to clarify.
    A concept can exist without recognition, like the fact that water is in fact H2O.
    Until it is recognised as such the concept of water being H2O is meaningless. But not the water itself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2006
  10. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Creationists don't believe in evolution, yet they themselves evolved and continue to evolve. Yet, evolution is meaningless simply because they don't believe in it?

    Theists would have us believe the pothole was shaped for the water as the universe was created for man.

    Perhaps, but evidently accurate, valid and unopposed.

    So, you now contradict your assumption beliefs drive concepts?
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    For them, yes. This is actually true even in science. A concept is valid until it is refuted by advances in knowledge. The acceptance of a new piece of information validates its existence, just a it invalidates those concepts which came before it.

    And you could choose not to accept it, in which case, it would have no meaning for you.


    So are idiots and madmen, in their own minds.

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    Their meaningfulness. A concept defines a phenomenon, it does not determine its (non)existence.


    Concept
    Noun
    1. An abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2006
  12. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    I am not disagreeing, the world is full of wardrobes and they are full.
     
  13. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    trying on coats

    (no room cos all the closet space is taken up with atheists!)
     
  14. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    And now a bit of RANDOM SILLINESS!

    Smithsonian:

    "Careful, you’ll make David Hume turn in his grave."

    CAUTION: HISTORICAL FAT JOKE AHEAD.

    Turn in his grave? He could barely fit in the coffin!

    HIYOOOOOOOO!
     
  15. Satyr Banned Banned

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    I’m all a jitter.
    I can’t wait.

    First that gay dude in denial tells us all men naturally crave other men sexually, even if they don’t know it or can’t bring themselves to admit it.
    Some kind of heterosexual conspiracy, I think.

    Now, princess, will uncover the deep dark secret about atheists.
    They have the gene, you see, even if their mind battles to overcome their genetic predispositions. It’s called discipline and thinking.

    I, myself, am an agnostic…a fence sitter, an eternal skeptic, although I’m leaning towards a no God depending on how one defines this idea.
    Could I be repressing my spirituality along with my latent homosexuality?

    Here’s what I think:

    Little girls should stick to makeup and pretty dresses and spiritual holism and healing the world of its evils and making babies and leave the rest to men.
     
  16. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    So Satyr, that would leave you doing nothing right?

    The atheist s problem is they are trying give God a limited meaning. They want conrete and in stone. They need to know everything about God or they are afraid. Since they are to a person unable to admit they can't understand something. So they take the stance that nothing they do not understand could possibly exist. It's typical ostrich crap.

    The Theist understands that we don't have to understand god. We like to believe a creator is kind and loving like a parent. We like to believe God is watching us every day. He doesn't seem to interfere that often, but that is fine. Now we don't attribute god with human like motives excepting Hove, Disappointment and Anger. That is enough for us.
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Theoryofrelativity:

    The difference is that in society at large, homosexuals are a minority, whereas in society at large theists are a majority. Surely the great majority of theists out there would not feel intimidated by a tiny majority of atheists? (Only 4% of people identify as atheists in the US.)
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    TW Scott:

    Many scientists are atheists. And, in general, scientists recognise that they will never know everything. Sure, they want to find stuff out - as much as they can. But they are realistic about what they do and do not know. Those who pretend to know stuff when they don't have any actual evidence are quickly found out.

    Very comforting, but what is this belief based on? A book written by human beings? Or a warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you think about God, perhaps?

    You limit God? On what basis?
     
  19. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    I think you will find most scientist are deeply entrenched in their faith. True Many scientist are atheists but it is hardly a majority.

    My observations of the part of the Bible that seem to more reflect god than a skewed persective, and real life.


    I'm not limiting God. God probably has man more emotions including ones we could not wrap our minds around. I'm just saying that those are the ones we can see and understand. See the limit is not on God, but on us. Our brain is impressive but we have limits.
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Perhaps. Anyway, the point was that it is not true to say that atheists need certainty any more than theists. In fact, arguably, theists are much more certain about what they think they know about the world than atheists. For example, theists are usually convinced there is an afterlife, and like you they presume to know the nature of God.

    This sounds like you're saying that your knowledge of God comes from some experience separate from the revelation of God contained in the bible. It sounds like you have a preconception of what God should be like, and then you pick and choose parts of the bible which correspond with that preconception.

    What, then, is the basis of your preconceived ideas of God? Is it that warm, fuzzy feeling thing after all? Or what?
     
  21. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    Were else but in the fence, the agnostic is nothing more than the intellectual coward, who can't make up his/her mind wether to believe or disbelief in an assertion.

    Godless
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Smithsonian:

    We'll need Theoryofrelativity's confirmation, but you may be right. Maybe she is saying that she feels intimidated by the fact that there seems to be a majority of atheists on sciforums. I imagine that situation would be rare in most places on the internet. In fact, it might provide an interesting perspective for theists to see things from "the other side", as it were.

    If theists really feel the need to hide on this forum, to dress themselves as atheists in order to conform to a perceived majority view, as she claims, I wonder what that says...

    My impression from debates on the Religion forum, however, does not seem to me to support the theory that theists are too scared to speak about their beliefs here.
     
  23. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    Very funny, I am surrounded by atheists in real life. Boyfriend, mother, aunt , uncle and all my friends. I love them dearly, they are great. They are not 'afraid' of my view and do not seek to demean it, and I respect their views. This is how life should be. Embracing the differences.

    The atheists here are NOT true atheists as they spend too much time on religious matters, I don't? I am not religious. Thus atheists here (not else where) closet theists or theists in denial.

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    Last edited: Aug 14, 2006
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