Atheism & Intelligence

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by garbonzo, May 21, 2013.

  1. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    We already are. Let them that have eyes see.
     
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  3. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Aw ^^ I like that Will Rogers comment.

    Sometimes we don't know, what we don't know.

    Question for the group: how do you define "eternity?" Is it in terms of space and time? There are different ways that the afterlife is often talked about so I wonder what you feel?
     
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  5. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Somewhere over the rainbow.....

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    I like this thread.
     
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  7. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    From the Gospel of Thomas:

    3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
    in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
    say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
    Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
    When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
    you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
    Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
    and it is you who are that poverty."
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A better idea would be for you to stay away from us, to avoid contamination.

    I am glad you recognize your problem and are beginning to censor yourself, before one of the mods does it for you. Ad hominems are not allowed in this forum. After this post, I for one shall take your advice and ignore anything you have to say.

    Have a good life, but I doubt you will.
     
  9. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    This is not a commonly brought up passage in sermons I've listened to.

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    Idk why that is, because it is one of the most beautiful ones.
    Thank you for posting it. <3
     
  10. absols Registered Member

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    no u should follow ur own advice and see mods coming after u, from daring meaning another life negatively

    my life or my existence is only me, nothing that u might have any idea about, so wether u know all the tortures im forced to handle while u dare inventing cheap roles to take advantage from, or wether u mean to justify criminals over known absolutes rights, in any way u r evil living, what is obviously the only life now, so the one under the spots moron
     
  11. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Because it's non-canonical.
     
  12. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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  13. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    In some forgettable Robin Williams movie a couple of decades ago, he was in a situation that looked (quite reasonably) like he was going to die. He conked out and when he awoke, he saw dogs gamboling and cavorting all around him. He said, "Oh crap, they sent me to Dog Heaven." Mrs. Fraggle and I looked at each other and said at the same time, "Looks like a really nice place to me."

    Since I am not a supernaturalist, my definition has to be rooted in reality. The cosmologists are now telling us that time had a beginning: before the instant of the Big Bang, there was no space-time continuum, no Laws of Nature (no s=.5at^2, no pV=nRT, perhaps not even 1+1=2), no nothing. They haven't figured out if the universe is going to have an end of the same nature as its beginning, with the continuum vanishing and all the laws repealed--as I understand it this confusion is due to not yet knowing the ratio of dark matter and dark energy to the regular kind.

    But if the universe will indeed come to an end, then "eternity" can be reasonably defined as "the lifespan of the universe."

    Otherwise, it defaults to its conventional definition: "all of time to infinity."

    My most popular performance at karaoke is The Rainbow Connection" by Kermit the Frog.

    Why are there so many songs about rainbows, and what's on the other side?
    Rainbows are visions, and only illusions, and rainbows have nothing to hide.
    So we've been told and some choose to believe it.
    I know they're wrong, wait and see.
    Some day we'll find it, the Rainbow Connection:
    The lovers, the dreamers... and me.​

    When the KJ schedules the Karaoke All-Stars Show twice a year, for variety there are no songs that were on the program last time. But he breaks that rule for me, because everybody wants to hear it again. Next time I'm going to have to get one of those little kid's stocking caps with frog ears and a tiny banjo.

    I, too, have "heard it too many times to ignore it." I guess by now all my friends have too.

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    Much of modern Christianity is apocryphal. Perhaps most of it, depending on the particular church. Our modern concepts of Heaven and Hell are accretions that were invented in the 19th century by Protestants. It takes considerable Scriptural gymnastics to "prove" that they are based on the Bible.

    The Jews don't buy into it at all. Their interpretation of the Torah is that when you die, your dead body lies there for a very long time. Then finally, when God decides that it's time for the world to end (which could literally be 5.4 billion years from now when the Sun becomes a red dwarf, expands into Earth's orbit, and vaporizes it), he will reanimate all the corpses and the good guys will have some sort of afterlife that is not described.

    This is why they don't allow embalming, autopsies or organ donation. You don't want to wake up with chemicals instead of blood, with your chest torn open, or with no kidneys. They conveniently ignore the awkward fact that without embalming, your body will have long ago been turned into worm food and then worm excrement. Even with embalming, it won't last five billion years!

    This has a tremendous impact on their attitude about what is "proper behavior" during their mortal life. Since God's judgment is five billion years in the future, any competent actuary will tell you that its present value is zero, so you need not take it into account when deciding how to live. Instead, you're supposed to think about your family. If you bring shame upon them, that shame will endure after you're gone.

    In fact if you bring down enough shame, it will sully the reputation of the entire tribe. Every Jewish person on the East Coast feels drenched in the shame of Bernie Madoff.

    This is hell!
     
  14. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Aw that's great
    Notice how no one says anything about a cat heaven ...I have cats and I love them but I understand why.

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    This to me, is where faith comes in. But...you knew I'd say this.

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    I agree actually with this entire assumption.
    For now...we can only assume.

    As they say...pics or it didn't happen.

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    I grew up with many Jewish friends in NJ and yes, their belief system is curious to me. If I were not Christian, I would be a messianic Jew. I feel that to be honest, fits with my belief system the most. But the diet is crazy strict from a kosher perspective. :/

    Some days it feels like it.

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  15. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    One thing to add Fraggle...the true tenets of Christianity do not suppose that one needs to follow proper behavior and then you end up in heaven. Rather the true belief is that grace from God is a gift and no one earns heaven.

    Of course, man has minced the true belief here and we now have 33,000 some odd "denominations" all opposing one another in some fashion. Jesus was a wonderfully simple guy...I wonder if He were here right now in our lifetime, what He would think. He didn't have such disharmony in mind.

    :/
     
  16. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    Welcome to the Hotel Hilbert
    where ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise
    where the irrational outnumber the rational
    but the real are greater than the natural
    it’s booked solid, yet there’s always a vacancy
    ‘tis odd to be even throughout eternity

    “Last thing I remember, I was running for the door
    I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
    "Relax", said the night man, “We are programmed to receive.
    You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave!"


    Science is the best tool we have to understand reality. The supernatural and superstition stop where science begins.

    “The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what’s true.” ~Carl Sagan

    Matthew 10:34 “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”

    Jesus Christ! No offense, but I’d have to taste the rainbow with ketamine to stomach that shit.
     
  17. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Not sure where you get that idea. The entire premise of the Christian faith (or any faith) is an attempt to correct behavior.

    Considering your seemingly un-scriptural view of Christianity, is it any surprise there are so many competing ideas?

    He'd probably think, "Where the hell are all the slaves? You guys should have slaves. We had them back in my day, and trust me, it made life a lot easier."
     
  18. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    No, it is a byproduct but not the tenet of the faith.

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    At the risk of going off on a tangent, I will just admit to not being a "sola scriptura" believer. Where everything must have biblical "proof."



    I doubt that.
    :/
     
  19. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Hey trooper

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    I agree about science but to me...my opinion...science has or had a Creator. So to me...neither ends ...although science alone has its limits...both can coexist together.

    I adore Carl Sagan and I agree with this. My faith isn't my preference though. It is a belief system that I follow based on a belief in objective truths.


    Doh!

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  20. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Why can't I multi quote on my phone? Sheesh
    :/

    Trooper ...sorry lol I replied to your Matthew passage quote. But it embedded in your quote.
    Sigh

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  21. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    And in my opinion…

    [video=youtube;0wCIa_OQ-2s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCIa_OQ-2s[/video]

    Religion...it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

    Cheers!
     
  22. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    @ trooper...

    The passage you mentioned is more of a metaphor. I have heard different interpretations but since Jesus can't contradict his own words. He wouldn't advocate violence while being a peaceful man.

    He also said to not die by the sword.

    So, to me...the interpretation that seems to fit the best is that if someone follows Jesus, he or she will sometimes cause discord and strife simply because of what they believe. I'm a pretty laid back person and I have a friend who rails on me for being a Christian. Always wishing to debate me. Sometimes I just want to be. I don't want to constantly have to "defend" my faith. That is more if what he meant. That following him may bring discord and you may find yourself severing ties to ppl because of it.

    This is my understanding. I hope I articulated it well enough.

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  23. elte Valued Senior Member

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    One way to see the Bible is as a political document. Our government Representatives meet to establish laws, and the bishops got together to establish what the Bible would be at the Council of Nicea.

    It's not all that different from how the Pope was selected. It's all just worldly activity.
     

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