Atheism causes delusional idiocy and dishonesty

lol

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:roflmao:

 

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:wave:-

he he he.

 

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i'd write it on mine if i had one just to spite everyone

 

Very peace loving of you

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i'm a bitch

 

Kadark

As far as I'm concerned there was a reason the Prophet did not want anyone to write down anything he said or did other than the Quran. There was a reason that writing the Hadiths was forbidden for the first century during the reign of the rightly guided caliphs.

"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim)

So as far as I'm concerned the Prophet never intended that people should follow what he did, the intent was always to let people find their own way and adapt as society changed.

However, I don't see what a few guys rejecting some Hadiths in Turkey is going to change. The al Azhar is the premier institution and will never recognize it. Deoband university is the second biggest and they will not throw away any records either. The better approach would be to emphasize that the Prophet did not want us to be bogged down by tradition and adapt accordingly.

Just my 2 cents

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The prophet didn't want... anyone to... Ha! Hahahahahaha!!!!!!

 

I agree mostly with all of your sentiments above. Perhaps I get a little carried away when Turkiye is put under the microscope. I'm territorial, y'know?

Rejecting hadiths, in all likelihood, will not affect Turkey for the most part. Generally speaking, the country is already quite moderate (especially in larger cities) - the military, however, is rabidly secular (which scares me). My sole aspiration is to have the revised hadiths affect Muslims outside of Turkey; it is no secret that outdated hadiths which were never Islamic in the first place need to be removed from the mainstream practice of religion in the Muslim world. It is unbelievable, for example, that some Muslims can defend their cultural practices (FGM) using blatant forgeries.

I also find your hypothesis of Muhammad's view of potential hadiths interesting and accurate. I suppose I'm still a little curious, though, if you see reform in Muslims (by and large) as necessary. I can't help but be a little confused when you say in one thread "reform is desperately needed", yet in another you exclaim "reform is disastrous" (or something along those lines).

 

Hey! This is a nice thread. All the muslimmy stuff and whatnot. Very interesting.


:sleep:

 

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Who's your papi, amigo?

 

You have to read my posts properly.

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I am a great supporter of ibn Tamiyya's ideas about Islam even though he has unfortunately also been the inspiration for Osama :shh:

I think he had absolutely the right idea. Wtf are the clerics doing supporting kings and dictators? Wtf is wrong with people, keeping quiet when laws are laid down which completely flout all Islamic principles of justice? Since when does Islam stone people, chop off hands and hang homosexuals? None of this was a part of the religion till the 1800s. Since when do we accept casual divorce and veils adopted from Christians as Islamic? And cover women from head to foot by force? So yes, in my opinion lets increase education about Islam in Muslim countries not just the sanitised reading of what the government wants you to know. Its the internet age and information is free.

Better to get away from all the rules and establishment and free yourself from all the shackles of tradition.

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I think we need more active scholars not old men in dusty rooms who are shy about getting involved.

I just said in the earlier post that Osama had scared the scholars out of reform, but its up to others to provide less notorious examples.

 

Mi padre? Mi padre es muertos.

 

Good post.

Honestly, I'm a little scared to address your point about "since when did we chop off hands?", since I envision a rebuttal along the lines of, "oh, well the answer to your query is simple - you didn't read it in Arabic!"

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The rest, however, is true. Such punishments were never practiced before.

Anyway, more or less, there are too many foreign influences that have gained far too much legitimacy in the realm of Islam. However, I don't see the benefit in freeing one's self from the shackles of tradition. Appropriate tradition (as in, Muhammad's generation and those directly after it) brought Islam to its zenith, both in power and tolerance. Is it not okay to follow that brand of tradition?

Regarding Osama, I don't feel like going into too much detail. My advice is, you (a general comment) should respect the man who gave up the sun and the moon to fight alongside Muslims. There are some people whose good far outweighs their bad; for such people, nagging about their "bad" is truly counterproductive and rude.

 

Ah but what did the Prophet do? In the first hundred years the Arabs focused on sending people out and about in the world, trade and work hard, study well, respect each other and take care of everyone. Those do not need traditions they are simple self evident principles.

By getting bogged down in tradition all we've achieved is sects within sects within sects. Not that I say we should do away with the diversity, but really do we need so much ritual? The Prophet himself was without ceremony, swept his own room, mended his own clothes and worked alongside his people. The early Caliphs could not be distinguished from the the most meanly dressed in the group. That does not require tradition. I don't believe we should throw anything away, its all history, but we really need to stop confusing ritual with religion.

As for Osama, regardless of his intentions (and they were good) he lost credibility when he resorted to violence. I hold him responsible for the state of both Afghanistan and Iraq today.

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Don't you see what I'm trying to say? Tradition, as in "sending people out and about in the world, trade and work hard, study well, respect each other and take care of everyone" and "early Caliphs could not be distinguished from the the most meanly dressed in the group" should never have been relinquished. It was traditional Islam which spread the message and told people to study it carefully; it was traditional Islam which kept the highest in command and the followers at modestly even levels. This is the tradition I fiend for. Rituals and backward cultures mean nothing to me.

Oh, come on, Sam. I truly am disappointed that somebody as well-educated as yourself could swoop to such low levels. Nearly everything in your quote is fatally flawed. If you ever truly want an explanation, let me know. I'm telling you as simply as possible that he's not responsible for the state of Afghanistan and Iraq today, and that he should not lose credibility for resorting to violence. You're normally pretty keen on history, although you seemingly know very little about Iraq/Afghanistan/Osama.

 

You know my email

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I'll explain my position on the topic thoroughly. As of now, it's past midnight, so it'll have to wait. Curiously, you quoted my post as "Qa'dark".

Hmm...