At what point, from conception does a ''phetus'' become a human being?

Discuss...

jan.

 

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When it can survive on its own outside the womb or when it's born because some babies are born "early" and are known as "preemies".

 

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When the mother decides it's a keeper. Oh! Are you speaking, legally, morally, religiously or medically?

 

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There isn't a single point. It's a gray area, and that grayness varies with each pregnancy. Fortunately from the point of view of abortion laws, the mother's own opinion and health determines things.

KillJoy's question demonstrates that there's even more grayness, as depending on which you choose, that foetus could be considered a person from conception all the way to actual birth. Or age 18.

 

So as long as it remains inside the mother, it can be classed as non-human?
By ''human'' I mean ''human-being'' not something that is merely a by-product of a human-being like hair.

jan.

 

Are you saying it is a human being if the pregnant mother decided it is?

That all depends on whether it is a human being or not.


jan.

 

Rhaedas,

Does it determine whether or not the fetus is a human being?


jan.

 

Back in biblical days if you jacked off and shot a load on the ground you sinned . Killing babies is why . That is why I believe the Men had lots of wives too. BE fruitful and multiply . Now the thing is we done did already . We is multiplied the hell out of things . So Now we say hold that thought . No more to much lot less babies and the young people heard it plain and clear and now have less babies for the majority . You got to live in your own time zone and think about the bigger picture . Motivating forces that exist and the big hold up is the baby incentive keep em coming my set of the old world clashing with the new world.

We still get tax deductions for having babies . Is that not encouraging . Don't change the law until me son is 18 though or we will have a problem

 

Is abortion an act of murder?

jan.

 

No, because it is not unlawful. There is also (usually) no malice aforethought.

Do you swat mosquitoes or flies, Jan?

 

does it matter if it is murder or not ? Dogs kill cats . Murder is a fact of living on the earth . The better question might be James fascination with sanctioned murder . . Is killing a punishable offense? Not always, as we learn form a cop killing a boy in London . There are many examples of sanction killings . What level do we want to go by ? What is it to you if a woman takes out the fetus. Better than going all Casey whats her name on a ? 4 year old ? We should real about the battle that are to be fought. I don't count abortion as a particularly important battle when we as group can't seem to give some of the people (all growed up and ready to contribute) there last meal before they starve to death. Take care of the living is good place to start and I got a feeling the baby thing will work it self out very soon . Not on your human day to day Martha approach of time , but yes give it 30 to one hundred years and people will screaming " More Babies More Babies and then abortion might be illegal

 

This is valid question. Without specifying, all answers are meaningless.


But here's a question for the OP: what difference do you see it making if it has the label of 'human being'? We all assign different things to that label and it's simply one more level of ambiguity.

Surely the salient question here is: regardless of whether or not it has the label of human being, at what point does it
a] have rights (such as to live)
b] become valuable enough to warrant protection whether or not it has rights.

 

That is essentially the same question.

 

When the mother to be is intent on having a baby, that fetus is going to be a human being to her and if it dies before being born it will hurt just about as bad.

(legally, morally, religiously or medically) these can all be considered moving targets depending on where on the world you are but also when you are. I personally like the human being part be only applied to a baby that can survive outside the womb.

 

i got it , the answer . it depends on you local in the world , but around here the answer is 18. You become an official full fledged human being when you turn 18. Up until then I think we should be able to take em out . Just joking Me teenage friends . You know I support your rights to be more than sub-Human

 

Fixed it for you. I don't think the question of legal or religious precedes morality here.

 

That definition has a problem though. What if it's born too soon and has to be treated in order to survive? It's rather common and the baby has a good chance to survive.
Some babies need to be operated on because they have some condition. After that they may be able to lead long and healthy lives.
It's much easier to say that it's a human being as soon as it's born alive.

Although.. I think the below is more sensible.

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Current_legal_situation):

"One aspect of the legal abortion regime now in place has been determining when the fetus is "viable" outside the womb as a measure of when the "life" of the fetus is its own (and therefore subject to being protected by the state). In the majority opinion delivered by the court in Roe v. Wade, viability was defined as "potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid. Viability is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks." When the court ruled in 1973, the then-current medical technology suggested that viability could occur as early as 24 weeks. Advances over the past three decades have allowed fetuses that are a few weeks less than 24 weeks old to survive outside the mother's womb. These scientific achievements, while life-saving for premature babies, have made the determination of being "viable" somewhat more complicated. As of 2006, the youngest child to survive a premature birth in the United States was a girl born at the Baptist Hospital of Miami at 21 weeks and 6 days' gestational age."

And:

"In most of Europe, elective abortions are only allowed up to 12 weeks (18 weeks in Sweden, 21 weeks in the Netherlands, 24 weeks in Great Britain)."


So I'd say, at present, one becomes a person (or 'human being') around 21 weeks after conception.

 

did you mean mortality and medical ? What is Morality? Define that in scientific terms could ya ? More like Taboo's of local importance . Some places still think cannibalism is still O.K. . Is it? Wild sex parties how bout that is that morality question ? 3 girls and 2 guys all naked and rolling around getting carpet burns ? Is that Morally wrong ? Should we make a law stating you can't do that ? Are you in that same camp ?