Assisted suicide - thought?

I think you are simplifying the matter and attributing to me a position that I don't hold.

Since I am the only in this thread who is not in favor of assisted suicide, you apparently placed me into the same camp with some publicly vocal others who oppose it, even though I am not in that camp and don't have the same motivations and beliefs as they do.

I am inclined to agree with Byock. I don't think that legalizing assisted suicide will really help anything, nor do I think that the current US practices about dying are good either.

Byock says -

"I don’t see legalizing assisted suicide add some extension of our personal freedoms, I think it’s a regression and apology for a failed social policy and failed healthcare policy."

I strongly agree with that.

 

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I qualified the you portion with - as in the people who dont want the option available

Like it or not, you are in that camp.

What social policy on death? Suicide attempts get you evaluated for mental health issues. Assisted suicide is illegal and partaking in such activities get you charged with murder. Social policy is if there is one last dollar to squeeze out of your dying hands, it should be spent on trying to delay the natural outcome of a fatal disease regardless of whether you have kids at home who have a future, or your hopes and dreams were to fund their college education with what you managed to save, not fund doctors/hospitals/nursing homes while they 'practice' their trade in under government mandate (with DEA oversight on dosage).

Health care policy? People are not taking overdoses to end their lives when they have a cure. Its about when there ISNT a cure.

Sorry but I value my kids future over my own. I value my kids future over some doctor/nursing homes profit margin.

 

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@wynn --

But you haven't given any evidence, even anecdotal evidence would be better than "his soul will hurt"(paraphrased obviously). Keep in mind though that I have more anecdotal support for my position(including the six times that I've done the whole "dying" thing) then you will be able to find for yours.

The problem with relying on anecdote as much as you do is that if there is equal or more anecdote going the other way then you can't make any convincing arguments, as you've learned from experience in this thread.

You'll note that both in that thread and in this one, when I've stated my opinion it's been clearly labeled as such. I don't instantly dismiss anything, it's when the personal experience/opinion/concern is at odds with the evidence that it gets dismissed, and rightly so.

And I've only dismissed personal experience when it conflicts with data because people are frequently wrong in what they think they experience. Bush Jr apparently experienced god telling him to go to war, do any of us think god actually told him to go to war? Not those of us with a brain anyways.

...When they conflict with the evidence as yours so demonstrably do in this thread. If you're going to put words in my mouth then you should at least make sure that they're correct.

Yes, you've made that crystal clear. What you've consistently failed to explain though is why such an approach is insufficient. You can't just say that an approach doesn't work and then not explain the why's and the how's, it simply doesn't work like that. You want me to embrace your inane(in my view) approach to this topic, then show me that it works better than mine does, because all you've shown so far is an emotional investment in a topic that you know next to nothing about.

I, on the other hand, have an emotional attachment to this issue which I've set aside in the hopes of learning more about it, which I've done thanks to Fraggle and others who were willing to present information about a topic which could well have gotten them in legal trouble. Beyond that I have much personal experience with dying while you have none, as someone who supposedly puts a lot of stock in personal experience you sure haven't put any stock in anyone's experience or evidence when it conflicted with your views.

Again, show me that you're right and I'll spin on a dime here. If you can't do that then you can have no reasonable expectation that we'll accept your position as valid. If you choose not to go that route then you could merely restate your position as an opinion rather than as a statement of fact and this whole thing would go away. I would still very likely think that you're opinion is stupid, but that's my right.

I have a phone call for you from a Mr Kettle, he wants to talk about the color black.

 

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About half of patients dying of cancer have severe pain. Yet, only half of these patients receive reliable pain relief. We can relieve the pain, but because of the misconceptions regarding pain and the drugs used, many patients die in agony.

In my father’s case, the nurse was dumb enough to put this in her notes, “Moaning and crying out-will continue to monitor.” Her reasoning stemmed from her religious convictions but usually it is from fear of criminal liability.

Dyspnea is one of the most feared symptoms. This was also my father’s biggest fear, but morphine can actually reduce dyspnea and the anxiety, without causing harmful respiratory depression.

This happens all the time. It’s very common. What it illustrates is the fears that people like Fraggle have about dying in pain are justified. There is an alarming lack of sensitivity regarding this issue.

If you noticed, I said that I still believe in the right to die, but that he did make some valid points. However, his argument was not persuasive. What he revealed was society’s innate and primitive principle regarding even pain relief for the dying. We have not even begun to distinguish facts from fiction in the laws of pain relief, much less suicide.

I think that many people feel that it is an invasion of bodily integrity to force life sustaining medical treatments but it is not an invasion to restrict physician assistant suicide. I don’t get it, though. We have this strong innate desire to reduce suffering for the living but not for the dying. What business is it of society to require this prolongation and suffering? In my opinion, it all boils down to GOD. We want them to die naturally, in god’s hands. Am I right?

Mother Killed by Hospice with Morphine Overdose

When I first found out that my father was terminal, I would have done anything in my power to keep him alive. I even asked myself if it was selfish to want him to suffer so that I could have him for a few more minutes. One minute seemed so valuable but to him a minute seemed like an eternity. Trust me… if this woman had watched her mother suffer, as I had with my father, she would have been grateful that her mother remained in a coma. Although, I am an atheist…I prayed…I prayed for him to die. Nobody should have to suffer like that.

 

This is very much the way others sometimes perceive their interactions with you. Perhaps if you were to explain yourself and the basis for your points with a bit more clarity, a bit less sarcasm, arrogance and insult, you could ease some of the friction between yourself and others here. Not that there is anything wrong with causing discord.

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For practical purpose, "suicide" means "to bring about one's own death" (" with a not insignificant measure of certainty" is implied). You load the gun, put it to your temple and pull the trigger fully expecting to die as a direct result. If you do not die from that, you have only attempted suicide, if you do die from that you have succeeded in committing suicide.

A cigarette smoker has approximately a 1 in 20 chance of dying from smoking and then indirectly. The smokers purpose is not to kill themselves though, it is to feed a habit that is demanding to be fed. They did not start smoking with the intent of killing themselves either, so even if they do die from the side - effects of smoking it is not "suicide".

"FWIW" is American shorthand for "For What It's Worth", which may be much or little, depending on the reader's mindset and ethics.

My emphasis is that I answer your questions while you do not answer mine. I consider that to be part of my contribution to your ongoing education.

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Always blame the other person, eh? I guess this is typically American too.

Rather than saying what you would like to emphasize with a piece of information, you rather blame me.

When the questions are of the kind "Why are you such a fucking idiot?" - yeah, how preposterous of me to not answer them earnestly!

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@wynn --

To be fair, you haven't answered a single one of my questions either, apparently because they're not the softballs you like to be thrown.

 

Don't care much for Americans, eh? Kinda painting with a broad brush there, son. Looks a bit like bias to me. Maybe you should report yourself for posting that.

Sometimes in this life you just have to make up your own mind, this is one of those occasions. I believe that you are up to it though.

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If you feel that you are to blame for something, however, perhaps you should try doing things a little differently.

FWIW, it matters not why you are "such a fucking idiot". It is, however, unfortunate that you view yourself in such manner.

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Right...and he or she would realize at that point that the right thing to do is A: Kill them, B: Kill them or C: Kill them and as a optional choice D: stand around praying or beliveing in false hope and saying that you understand what their feeling and try to convince yourself and the person slowly rotting on the hospital bed that it is all going to be just super, all the while your just making an ass of yourself in addition they mighy just sense the bs that your spewing and everyone around you would notice you saying it to.

Germany has had no penalty for either suicide or assisted suicide since 1751, although it rarely happens there due to the hangover taboo caused by Nazi mass murders, plus powerful, contemporary, church influences. Direct killing by euthanasia is a crime. In 2000 a German appeal court cleared a Swiss clergyman of assisted suicide because there was no such offence, but convicted him of bringing the drugs into the country. There was no imprisonment.

 

I think assisted suicide should be accepted, people should have a right to do whatever they want with their lives, if they want to kill themselves so what, people should help them in doing it right

 

THANK YOU!:thumbsup:

 

Why have someone "assist" you, just go out and buy a gun and do it to yourself, making others do it for you only puts them into a distressed feeling of murdering someone who they care for. That of course is for those who can still move around for there are other means available. I just think iof you want to leave this life you should be the one to do it and not make others help you.

 

True but then there are the laws that try to prevent you from suicide or heavly punish said individuals for attempting to take his or her own life.

 

Please list them or at least give a site that list them(hopefully they are within my travel budget)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation#Laws_in_individual_jurisdictions