"As a Jew, no place but Israel is home "

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by S.A.M., Apr 20, 2010.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting article in Ha'aretz:

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1163621.html

    This is a guy who lived in the US all his life and has spent only 18 months in Israel:

    Does being Jewish wire people for ethnocentrism? How can someone wipe out decades of diversity with a few months of homogeneity?

    The town where Klein lives in Israel, Bet Shemesh is 100% Jewish since all "Aravs" have been ethnically cleansed from it. [see wikipedia

    Isn't this racism? Or just an indicator of the socially dysfunctional aspects of Zionism?

    Does this guy still have an American passport?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
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  3. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Sam? Are you going there again petal? I mean you have been so sweet lately and now this

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    I mean can you not see that the 'ethnocentrism' you refer to does not simply apply to jews nor does 'jewishness' necessarily imply ethnocentrism. Are there not perhaps other reasons why jews may feel self protective because of, for example, generation after generation of persecution?

    I mean you cannot couch an individuals behaviour solely on their ethnicity so I don't know why you would do so to an entire people.

    I mean you hate it when folk take on that attitude about muslims or people from the middle east don't you?

    How would you interpret some african americans breaking down in tears upon visiting Africa for the first time and proclaiming themselves as finding their 'home'? How would you interpret the feelings of some african americans who are not comfortable in an all white setting and prefer to ensconce themselves among an all black community?

    Are they also suffering from ethnocentrism?

    I mean this is one man's story. Why do you assume that being jewish has the same meaning for all jews? Why does his one story equate to all jews what you perceive as 'ethnocentrism'?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What does it mean when a guy who has lived all his life in the US is made uncomfortable by signs in English because he spent 18 months in an ethnically cleansed 100% Jewish neighborhood?

    I find it very unnatural.
     
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  7. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Who knows Sam.

    But can you answer some of the questions posed to you in my previous post? Thank you.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What if it was a French Jew who was made uncomfortable by signs in French after living 18 months in an ethnically cleansed neighborhood now made up of all Jews only?

    Or even before living in an ethnically cleansed neighborhood?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/20/france.israel1
     
  9. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    I was kidding about the French thing but not about the other questions. Why has his personal story somehow equated to a standard sentiment for an entire people? Look above I posted some singular questions for you.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Personal story? Have you heard the word aliyah? Thats what it means when 80,000 Jews leave India for Israel after 2000 years in the country. Klein is just one in a long line of people who move to Palestine and displace non-Jews so they can feel at home in Jewish neighborhoods they create in their stead.

    But I'm not interested in the politics here, I'm wondering at what underlies this discomfort with diversity that being born and brought up in a diverse environment has no effect on the desire for a homogenous neighborhood. It it makes you uncomfortable to think of Jewish Zionist, think of white racists instead, who aim for a similar level of comfort.
     
  11. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Yes I know but they may not all share his personal feelings Sam. There are many reasons why a Jew would take aliyah. One russian I know from Cambodia made aliyah because of growing anti semitism in his own country, he wanted to go somewhere he wouldn't have to experience that kind of isolation and fear.

    Why is it that you cannot understand that for some people the 'land of their forefathers' or the 'promised land' (your a religious person so you should understand its relevance) would have a spiritual dimension to it as going back to Africa does for many african americans. It has something to do with the diaspora syndrome
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    There are Zionists who do not want a Jewish state in Palestine?

    Could you give me an example of one?
     
  13. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Now the above draws on a very different question than your OP.

    How do you know he was brought up in a very diverse environment and not a jewish community? There are many african americans that never leave the hood so to speak, they don't make friends with asians or whites etc.

    They don't partake in diversity even though we call the US a diverse environment. What makes a jewish person who feels more comfortable with their own people anymore 'ethnocentric' than say the Japanese who prefer the same, and to that I would even add the Koreans who are severely ethnocentric.

    What makes it different? Why not pose the question to include all groups that show signs of this? Why only point out the jew?
     
  14. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Well there is no longer a palestinian state, but to be clear, are we speaking of jews or zionists precisely? As you use the two terms interchangeably

    By the way you are slipping. Remember you said "But I'm not interested in the politics here, I'm wondering at what underlies this discomfort with diversity that being born and brought up in a diverse environment has no effect on the desire for a homogenous neighborhood. "

    To revert back to questions of the non existent palestinian state and zionism IS to take an interest in the politics.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Its the Jewish state. By self declaration. And the OP is about Jewishness. I am however aware that while Israel represents Jews, Jews do not necessarily represent Israel. However, since there is no definition of Jew, that makes the whole thing moot.

    For arguments sake, lets assume I mean all people who are born and brought up in diverse societies and abandon them for the [ongoing] ethnically cleansed state of Palestine which they wish to convert into a Jewish society.
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    What is 'jewishness' Sam? Do you know?
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The absence of non-Jews. This thread is about moving from diversity to ethnocentric society. About feeling uncomfortable with English signs and immigrant taxi drivers in NY.
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    That definition is utter hate bullshit Sam!

    You claim the whole of their society is ethnocentric? You only want to use their society as an example of one that is not diverse? So why don't we discuss Switzerland Sam? Why are they not included as 'ethnocentric'? What about Russia?

    This is pure jew hating bullshit

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  19. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    You do realize that the other societies I refer to also have other groups as minorities the same as Israel don't you?
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You define Jew and I'll define Jewishness. The fluidity of the definition can be anything. You're the one who thinks a South African Jew's nation is Israel.

    Yeah, I'm Indian. Which is why I can recognise ethnocentrism.
     
  21. Enmos Staff Member

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    What is your point? Is this about Jews or is this about the psychology of ones 'old' country feeling unnatural to someone despite having lived there for decades (like the quote below suggests)?

     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I want to know what makes a person born and brought up in the English language uncomfortable with English signs.

    I want to know what makes a person born and brought up in an immigrant state uncomfortable with non-Jews
     
  23. Enmos Staff Member

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    You should know better than to focus your OP on Jews only, if that's what you're really after.
    Anyway, in that case, this thread seems more appropriate in 'Human Science'.
     

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