arrested for talking about moon landing

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Rita, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. Rita Registered Member

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    210
    I had to check what Fraggle said about the first missile and thoughts of flying to the moon. This story is a good example of what morons the Germans under Hitler were. Excuse me, but decisions made under Hitler were really terrible. Like thanks to him, the US got a lot of good scientist, like Einstein.

    http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blrocketv2.htm

     
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  3. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    1,048
    Are you sure your not just buying the hype?

    I think you will find the whole cold war was made up to weaponise earth, and something bigger is going on at that level. There is something bigger going on at that level of when you talk about space stuff and i think you may find that all countries work together at some level.

    I seriously doubt we know the truths about what really happened, and all that stuff with nazis and science is a hodge podge of lies and disceat. Tell me how you can truly gather the truths about what really goes on.

    If there really are such things as a secret space goings on, tell me when it first started or whats going on now.
     
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  5. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    It sounds a fascinating story.
    I must obtain a book about war and post war rocket development.
    Can anyone recommend one?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
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  7. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    2,862
    The people are never being told to what those astronauts are doing tin the ISS for the past years they have been working there.

    The military always wants a war that way they can always have a purpose and therefore they start wars just to keep their jobs and make tons of money for themselves and the companies who supply the weapons to them.
     
  8. Gorlitz Iron Man Registered Senior Member

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    Much of the Nazi rocket research came with the deaths of the forced slaved labour they were using, so it kind of makes people wonder about the double standard here, because on the hand much of the medical research that was conducted on slaves and concentration victims is thought of as a product of evil and generally considered should not be used as it led to the deaths and suffering of so many many people to obtain it. Where as on the other hand Nazi rocket research and the scientists, such as von Braun, were welcomed into the West with open arms. I guess many will say well it was war time and the scientists were being made to work, but that is still to ignore the deaths and suffering of so many who were forced into these scientific projects, people who the scientists at the time knew were dying. So again what is the difference between a wartime scientist conducting medical experiments resulting in deaths or a rocket scientist conducting rocket tests resulting in deaths? Well one is thought of as an evil war criminal and the other a hero of the space program, well I guess that certainly must have helped place some extra emphasis on the importance of the right choice of scientific field.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    14,554
    ??? Just ask them. It's not a big secret.

    Or just go to their website. Here are just the A's:

    ===============
    2D-NanoTemplate (Production of Two Dimensional NanoTemplate in Microgravity)
    3D-Space (Mental Representation of Spatial Cues During Space Flight)
    3DA1 Camcorder (Panasonic 3D Camera)
    ACE-1 (Advanced Colloids Experiment-1)
    ACE-M-1 (Advanced Colloids Experiment-M-1)
    Acoustika-M (Acoustical Investigation of Voice and Audio Links (Conncections) of the Crew on ISS)
    Actin (Role of Weightlessness on Metabolism)
    ADF-Otolith (Avian Development Facility - Development and Function of the Avian Otolith System in Normal Altered Gravity Environments)
    ADF-Skeletal (Avian Development Facility - Skeletal Development in Embryonic Quail)
    ADUM (Advanced Diagnostic Ultrasound in Microgravity)
    ADVASC (Advanced AstrocultureTM)
    AgCam (Agricultural Camera - AgCam name used historically from 2005-2010, later version known as ISSAC)
    Ageing (Drosophila Motility, Behaviour and Ageing)
    Akvarium (Study of the Stability of a Model of Self-Contained (Closed) Ecological System and Elements, Included in the Model in Microgravity)
    Alloy Semiconductor (Crystal Growth of Alloy Semiconductor Under Microgravity)
    ALTCRISS (Alteino Long Term Cosmic Ray Measurements on board the International Space Station)
    ALTEA (Anomalous Long Term Effects in Astronauts' Central Nervous System)
    ALTEA-Dosi (Anomalous Long Term Effects in Astronauts' - Dosimetry)
    ALTEA-GAP (Anomalous Long Term Effects in Astronauts' Central Nervous System-GAP)
    ALTEA-Shield (Anomalous Long Term Effects in Astronauts' Central Nervous System - Shield)
    Alteino (Space Radiation Effects on the Central Nervous System)
    Amine Swingbed (Amine Swingbed)
    AMS-02 (Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer - 02)
    ANDE-2 (Atmospheric Neutral Density Experiment - 2)
    ANITA (Analyzing Interferometer for Ambient Air)
    Antigen (Optimization of Heterological Expresssion in Yeasts-True Yeasts in Microgravity for Example Synthesis of the HBS Antigen of the Virus Hepatitis B)
    APCF-Camelids (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Extraordinary Structural Features of Antibodies from Camelids)
    APCF-Crystal Growth (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Solution Flows and Molecular Disorder of Protein Crystals: Growth of High Quality Crystals, Motions of Lumazin Crystals and Growth of Ferritin Crystals)
    APCF-Crystal Quality (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Effect of Different Growth Conditions on the Quality of Thaumatin and Aspartyl-tRNA Synthetase Crystals Grown in Microgravity)
    APCF-Lipoprotein (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Crystallization of Human Low Density Lipoprotein (LDL) Subfractions in Microgravity)
    APCF-Lysozyme (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Testing New Trends in Microgravity Protein Crystallization)
    APCF-Octarellins (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Crystallization of the Next Generation of Octarellins)
    APCF-PPG10 (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Protein Crystallization in Microgravity, Collagen Model (X-Y-Gly) Polypeptides - the case of (Pro-Pro-Gly) 10)
    APCF-Rhodopsin (Advanced Protein Crystallization Facility - Crystallization of Rhodopsin in Microgravity)
    APEX-CSA2 (Advanced Plant Experiment - Canadian Space Agency 2)
    AQH Microscope Checkout (Aquatic Habitat Microscope Checkout)
    Area PADLES (Area Passive Dosimeter for Life-Science Experiments in Space )
    ARIS-ICE (Active Rack Isolation System - ISS Characterization Experiment)
    ARISS (Amateur Radio on the International Space Station)
    Aryl (Influencing Factors of Space Flight on Expression of Strains of Interleukin)
    Astrovakcina (Cultivation in Weightless of E.coli- Producer of the Caf1 Protein)
    AT-Space (Arabidopsis Thaliana in Space: Perception of Gravity, Signal Transduction and Graviresponse in Higher Plants)
    AuroraMAX (Coordinated Aurora Photography from Earth and Space (AuroraMAX) )
    Avatar Explore (Avatar Explore: Autonomous Robotic Operations Performed from the ISS)
    ===========================================
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    14,554
    Both were used. The Nazis did a lot of medical experimentation on uses of anesthesia; we used it here in the West to improve surgical anesthesia.
     
  11. Gorlitz Iron Man Registered Senior Member

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    Generally though there is still much medical data we don't use because of the ethical consideration of the way it was obtained, where as I'm unaware of any information or rocket technology we didn't use or that we ever even thought any of it might be unethical to use.
     
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I think one needs to remember that by the closing stages of the war, the Allies were well aware that the next threat - and a very serious one - was coming from Stalin's USSR. Churchill at one stage feared we would be at war with Stalin almost as soon as Germany was defeated. So the use of these German scientists was driven by the imperatives of survival and the need to save as much as possible of Europe from Stalin's domination. In the circumstances it is not surprising that squeamishness about the morality of these Nazi projects was set to one side. That was a luxury that came later, once security was assured.
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    14,554
    Can you give an example?

    Here are a few other places medical data from human experiments have been used:

    Nazi researchers submerged their victims in icewater until they died. From this research we have developed new ways to warm hypothermia victims, and used the research to design better water survival suits. They also took them to high altitudes in a pressure chamber then dissected them to see if they suffered from decompression sickness; we have used this data to determine how fast a pressure drop is safe.

    There were a tremendous number of medical experiments that Nazis tried that just plain failed - the data were collected incorrectly or the goal was not achieved. These are not used because they're useless, not because the ethical considerations override the value of the information.
     
  14. Gorlitz Iron Man Registered Senior Member

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    290
    The issue is an ethical one and the internet is littered with examples of this ethical debate with many researchers rejecting the use of data obtained from such experiments on moral grounds while some, less ethically concerned shall we say, reseachers do find it acceptable to use such data. But because this is still considered a somewhat controversial issue, rather than give any particular example that may leave open the question of bias or impartiality I would just prefer to cite the the debate that indeed took place here on sciforums as this can give a better overview of the whole issue and moral debate. http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?60261-Should-we-use-data-of-Nazi-s-human-experiences
     
  15. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    2,862
    Thanks! I did not know about all of these places, which web site has the entire list?
     
  16. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

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    2,862
    duplicate post delete please, thanks.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    OK. Answers from that thread:

    "yes by all means."
    "Dr. Mengele's experiments were extremely interesting. They deserve scientific recognition for the empirical data provided."
    "If we don't use it, someone else will end up suffering at the hands of some other pyscho-chimp penny-ante dictator's "experiments" just because we chose to throw it away."
    "unfortunately, yes."
    "Well, the question itself remains largely irrelevant - we've already used this specific data you've mentioned extensively and its been used to save lives."
    "Yes, definitely. Whether or not the knowledge should have gotten there is irrelevent; it is there now and we have an obligation to use it. "
    "i will agree that the data is valid, i will also agree that it should be used."
    "I dont know if its already been said, but I think if the data can be used for good purposes i.e. save lives, it could be considered a waste and thus more unethical not to put it to use."

    I guess that answers the question.
     
  18. Rita Registered Member

    Messages:
    210

    I like this post. The difference in our responses does not seem logical. That is something to ponder.

    I like Exchemist's word "squeamishness". When we cause a human suffering we hopefully do have an uncomfortable feeling, but when we see the power of a rocket we feel excited, so the medical experiments seem awful but the rockets thrill us. However, we can not undo the past, and in maybe it is good thing to make the best we can out of it.
     
  19. Kittamaru Suppose it makes sense. Wearing a bit thin. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    Uhm... what?
     

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