Arizona Shooting Spree, Congresswoman, judge, among victims...

IF and when they find this "person of interest" I will read what is written about the connection. If they turn up, its likely going to turn out to be an "I had no idea, he just asked me for a ride" connection.

Kinda like this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40709114/ns/us_news-weird_news/

 

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This issue has no connection with conservative America. Crazy comes in all shapes and sizes.

~String

 

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It is interesting to see Republicans in the House back off the rhetoric. They have indefinately postponed a vote to repeal the Healthcare Reform law passed in 2009 by the Democrats.

Hopefully this will be a lesson. Former House Speaker, Democrat Nancy Pelosi has been warning about this kind of thing for almost a year now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/17/pelosi-warns-of-violence_n_289999.html

 

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It wasn't his interpretation of the constitution that lead to the shooting but his own psychotic reaction. I mean we don't blame the Green Movement for the Unabomber, you're just being paranoid and blaming ideology and political affiliation for this guys craziness.

 

As for the Sheriff I think its kind of sick to politicize the tragedy and then for you to take the names of political pundits out of a hat and blame them for the actions of an unstable person asking them to apologize.

I mean isn't this the same kind of hyperbolic rhetoric you're blaming the pundits for engaging in?:shrug:

At some point Joe you're going to have to stop looking at the US through its Democrat vs Republican divisive paradigm and realize that you're all in this together...sink or swim. You don't foster an environment of cooperation for the common good by using tactics best left to the Republican fringe. Most Tea Party members are just frightened Americans confused about the future of the country, a fear that also runs through the Left. And as usual instead of looking for the real cause behind the nations financial crises you all go around beating each other in the heads while bankers are bailed out and go home blameless. Nice.

This is just another way to keep you all distracted and pointing fingers at each other, playing the blame game, while you all get screwed. What a waste of resourceful energy.

Remember that the wacko pundits are tapping into a rage not the cause of it. Why do you not blame liberals for not having reached out to that confused population and addressing their needs? Where are the grass-roots leaders of the Left?


Noam Chomsky, Tuesday, May 11, 2010 (an excerpt):

On Feb. 18, Joe Stack, a 53-year-old computer engineer, crashed his small plane into a building in Austin, Texas, hitting an IRS office, committing suicide, killing one other person and injuring others.

Stack left an anti-government manifesto explaining his actions. The story begins when he was a teenager living on a pittance in Harrisburg, Pa., near the heart of what was once a great industrial center.

His neighbor, in her ’80s and surviving on cat food, was the “widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement.

“Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was Social Security to live on.”

He could have added that the super-rich and their political allies continue to try to take away Social Security, too.

Stack decided that he couldn’t trust big business and would strike out on his own, only to discover that he also couldn’t trust a government that cared nothing about people like him but only about the rich and privileged; or a legal system in which “there are two `interpretations’ for every law, one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us.”...

...In the U.S., the Tea Party movement—and even more so the broader circles it reaches—reflect the spirit of disenchantment. The Tea Party’s anti-tax extremism is not as immediately suicidal as Joe Stack’s protest, but it is suicidal nonetheless.
Encouraging anti-tax sentiment has long been a staple of business propaganda. People must be indoctrinated to hate and fear the government, for good reasons: Of the existing power systems, the government is the one that in principle, and sometimes in fact, answers to the public and can constrain the depredations of private power.

However, anti-government propaganda must be nuanced. Business of course favors a powerful state that works for multinationals and financial institutions—and even bails them out when they destroy the economy.

But in a brilliant exercise in doublethink, people are led to hate and fear the deficit. That way, business’s cohorts in Washington may agree to cut benefits and entitlements like Social Security (but not bailouts).

At the same time, people should not oppose what is largely creating the deficit—the growing military budget and the hopelessly inefficient privatized healthcare system.

IT IS EASY TO RIDICULE HOW JOE STACK AND OTHERS LIKE HIM ARTICULATE THEIR CONCERNS, BUT IT IS FAR MORE APPROPRIATE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT LIES BEHIND THEIR PERCEPTIONS AND ACTIONS AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE WITH REAL GRIEVANCES ARE BEING MOBILIZED IN WAYS THAT POSE NO SLIGHT DANGER TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.

http://www.zcommunications.org/rustbelt-rage-by-noam-chomsky

 

April 12, 2010

Noam Chomsky, the leading leftwing intellectual, warned last week that fascism may be coming to the United States.

“The level of anger and fear is like nothing I can compare in my lifetime,” he said.

He cited a statistic from a recent poll showing that half the unaffiliated voters say the average tea party member is closer to them than anyone else.

“Ridiculing the tea party shenanigans is a serious error,” Chomsky said.

Their attitudes “are understandable,” he said. “For over 30 years, real incomes have stagnated or declined. This is in large part the consequence of the decision in the 1970s to financialize the economy.”

There is class resentment, he noted. “The bankers, who are primarily responsible for the crisis, are now reveling in record bonuses while official unemployment is around 10 percent and unemployment in the manufacturing sector is at Depression-era levels,” he said.

And Obama is linked to the bankers, Chomsky explained.

“The financial industry preferred Obama to McCain,” he said. “They expected to be rewarded and they were. Then Obama began to criticize greedy bankers and proposed measures to regulate them. And the punishment for this was very swift: They were going to shift their money to the Republicans. So Obama said bankers are “fine guys” and assured the business world: ‘I, like most of the American people, don't begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free-market system.’

People see that and are not happy about it.”

He said “the colossal toll of the institutional crimes of state capitalism” is what is fueling “the indignation and rage of those cast aside.”

“People want some answers,” Chomsky said. “They are hearing answers from only one place: Fox, talk radio, and Sarah Palin.”

http://www.progressive.org/wx041210.html


I mean Joe, seriously, WAKE THE FUCK UP!

 

Uh no. It is not. Two, there is no evidence the sheriff is in any way doing anything political in nature when he says certian individuals need to tone down the political rhetoric.

Using words like kills and symbols like gun sites is over the top for any rational person. Sarah Palin as an example just a few months ago had a gun site aimed at Representative Gifford's name on her web site. That is over the top.

At some point people need to stop making excuses for the excesses of the American right wing.

It was not that long ago where I engaged in conversations with a certian well known right wing extremist in this forum who refused to say if he was formenting violent over throw of the US government. Ironically, he is a retired member of the US military.

 

that is wishful thinking and has no basis in the evidence. the problem with saying there is a coming war is eventually people get tired of waiting. whether you wish to believe it or not the violent rhetoric of conservative pundits did in some way contribute to this tragedy. fire can only be played with for so long before something burns.





and before you mention his alleged left wing political ideology as to why conservative america doesn't play a role remember that we are affected by the actions of those who we oppose as much as those we support. the duality exists.

 

No. Not political. Emotional.

"Dupnik, who identified himself as a friend of the murdered judge as well as Giffords', said unbalanced people respond to such vitriol, and that Arizona had become a mecca for prejudice and bigotry.

When asked by a reporter how they know that was a cause, he conceded: "You don't."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/ar...Air_Vitriol_Has_Consequences_.php?rssid=20068

Unbalanced people find some illogical justification for their beliefs and actions. If not political rhetoric, its messages in music, or talking dogs (son of sam) or radio beams picked up by their teeth. And if you ban music, black dogs and pull all the teeth out of all the people, unbalanced people will get their messages from goldfish or clouds in the sky or Jesus hisself.

No she didnt. Here is the picture:
http://yesbuthowever.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Palin 20 Map1.png

This was not some nefarious Manchurian candidate plot put into action by keywords written on Palin's website. This was the actions of a deranged individual who took an existing opportunity to unleash his madness on the country. He did not invoke the Tea Party, Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Fox news or any of the other right wing rhetoric on his youtube postings, while having a month to put his thoughts into words. The closest he comes to a cause is grammar/illiteracy and the fiat money (the Fed Reserve being a favorite conspiracy theme in several circles). As far as the facebook postings, there is doubt as to whether it is actually his site, or one created when his name became public.

 

You mean like the interpretation that the Constitution is a "living document" that can mean anything someone wants, anytime they want?

Anyone who has a real interest in politics has their idea of the proper interpretation of the Constitution.

 

Oh, horseshit. The kind of people who use Limbaugh's criticism of the government as an excuse for murder are nuts who would be doing violent things no matter what.

 

Don't retreat! Instead - RELOAD!

 

Yeah, political slogans that are meant to be witty are totally incitements to violence.

I guess John Kerry should have been shot for treason when he called for "regime change" in America, since that's the term used for invading Iraq and getting rid of Saddam?

 

Wow! She's been warning that crazy Americans would do crazy things.

I have a few warnings for you too!

--Next year hurricanes will kill Americans on the coast of Florida!
--There will be a school shooting in the next few years.
--Americans will die from starvation!

See. We can all make easy to fulfill predictions. Predicting the obvious doesn't mean that Pelosi is right and that "something must be done".

Guess what? In a free society, terrible, horrible things happen. You mourn the dead, but always realize that freedom comes with a grotesque price: sometimes people abuse that freedom. The wrong response is to assume that this pesky freedom stuff should be curtailed (like after 9/11) to prevent bad things from happening, because bad stuff will always happen. You just can't stop it. It's the price we pay for being who we are.

~String

 

And here is a post from march 2010 responding to the outcry of how dare they...

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

*note, took a while for the page to load as it seems to be getting much attention now.

Target rich environments are not party affiliated. Reading the comments from above page reminded me of this incident:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/man-held-in-convention-bomb-plot/

 

Well sure it possible even likely that the disgusting state of political rhetoric had something to do with setting this clearly schizophrenic man off, the man's logic (suppose we can call it that) was not following of any one parties rhetoric.

 

It doesn't appear to be gunsights though.

http://yesbuthowever.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Palin 20 Map1.png

You have Circles, Circles with horizontal lines, Circles with Vertical lines and then there are ones with both. The ones with both do appear like a gunsight, but since the other's don't so I think people are leaping to conclusions.

Palin is also out in the public all the time, and there is a good chance she will run again, and so I really don't think she is trying to suggest to anyone that shooting of candidates is appropriate.

Arthur

 

I'm sure they removed it because of all the internet buzz from people like you and Joe claiming it could be interpreted as a gunsight.

Rebecca Mansour, an aide to Mrs Palin, told local radio on Sunday that "we never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights".

Do you think Rebecca is a liar?

Personally I'm not part of Palin's inner circle and so I don't know, but in the absence of proof that that's what they intended, I'm willing to accept her statement.

Why?

Because Palin was and is likely to again be a candidate, and suggesting shooting of candidates is thus not a likely strategy.

Arthur

ps I'm not sure I've ever defended Palin on this or any other forum, what are you speaking of?