Are You Living in a Computer Simulation?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Magical Realist, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    If it takes so much energy than it's not possible I'm sorry. Plus, this computer program has to be perfect with no glitches/errors at all-that's again impossible.
     
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  3. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    Only inside the mind of your own mind.
     
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Except that the "infinite" energy requirement is unsubstantiated.

    Yeah? How do you know?

    Found any way of substantiating your claims yet?
     
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  7. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    You're the one who is saying that. If universe=everything, than there is no outside of everything, therefore the Programmer does not exist, and universe is not computer simulation, since universe cannot simulate itself.
     
  8. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    Actually it's not unsubstantiated, since universe is everything, but again if that's the case, than there is nothing outside the universe, and therefore there is no simulation of the universe, since the universe cannot simulate itself.
     
  9. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    You're the one who is assuming/supposing everything, not me.
    I'm not assuming anything, how can you simulate the universe and every single part of it if you don't understand how the universe itself behaves according to the laws of physics. You would have to know everything about the universe, predict everything, how and when an event is going to occur at every single part of the universe from quantum level (and below) to the highest level. Now how are you going to do all that if you are not omniscient.
     
  10. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    But,he is...

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    Scary huh?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2012
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Er, the universe is everything we know.
    By definition we can't include the "outside simulator" as part of our universe.

    Correction, it IS unsubstantiated since all you've do is make claims and arm wave so far.

    I suggest you go back and read your posts. You have made claims that are mere assumptions.

    Unless they invented those laws of physics.
    Or just let the programme run to see how/ if the laws evolved.

    Right. So when you write a computer programme you know before-hand exactly what it's going to do any any given stage and exactly what the output is going to be? (Why write it then?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2012
  12. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I would suggest you familiarise yourself with the story of Giotto's perfect circle.

    After all drawing a perfect circle freehand is "Too hard", but he still did it.
     
  13. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I guess you'd imply you can't detect a computer is running a program.

    In the instance of computers there are many levels you can attempt to generate a detection, most of them will breakdown to the hardware level (having probes designed within the hardware) but because you can see the computer from outside the box, you can actually go further than that. You could detect the changes in electromagnetic fields around any circuitry, it's possible you could attempt to use a matricing method to attempt to permeate and detect alterations in flow.

    Of course you could throw the Principle of Uncertainty curve ball in regards to how such active methods would upset the flow causing potential issues with how a process or program runs, but this is really about "detecting the computers variation of consciousness".

    With a biological it's a little different, however again any systems used to detect consciousness in our universe are much like the probes built into the hardware. It gets more interesting the further you step out of the box.
     
  14. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    That is like saying there is nothing more than Infinity. Infinity is itself just a algebraic place holder, and this is proven when you take infinity and plus 1 to it.

    Funny thing is, that one was outside your initial concept of infinity.
     
  15. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    Like it or not universe cannot simulate itself-you have to have some outside computer to do all that, but since the universe is everything, and there is absolutely nothing outside the everything, than universe cannot be a simulation. There are some things like trying to find my job that cannot be programmed. Like I said the programmer, has to omniscient, omnipresent at an given stage of simulation of the creation and the evolution of the universe.
    My brain's free will is to do whatever it wants, even something that is not programmed-can the Programmer simulate all the possibilities? I'm not so sure, it's really possible he forgets something to simulate.

    For example, why can't Programmer program me and the employer, so I can find me job? It's obviously outside the Programmer's capabilities, if so than the universe is not a computer simulation.
    It's not like employer has been programmed to not to recruit me, his brain was not programmed to do that, it was his brain's free will.

    Plus, the Programmer would have to have each computer for just about any animal, plant, microbe, molecule, atom, subatomic particle, quantum level and below that just in case he actually can't see them all and so he can manipulate all of their actions, decisions, behaviors and everything else at any given time-if he wants to manipulate them at any given time... at the same time, just as the Programmer has to have to simulate what he/she is doing at any given time, make decisions instead of them-that's not possible, because I decide what I'm going to do at any given time of my life.
    That's not possible unless you're omni-present at any given time and space.
    Meaning, the computer simulation of each and every one of us has to be perfect and totally flawless without any glitches/errors and omnipotent. There is no such thing as perfect and omnipotent computer simulation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  16. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    If there is plus 1 outside the Infinity, than it's simply not 100% infinite.
     
  17. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    This is my response to Dwydyyr:
    Like it or not universe cannot simulate itself-you have to have some outside computer to do all that, but since the universe is everything, and there is absolutely nothing outside the everything, than universe cannot be a simulation. There are some things like trying to find my job that cannot be programmed. Like I said the programmer, has to omniscient, omnipresent at an given stage of simulation of the creation and the evolution of the universe.
    My brain's free will is to do whatever it wants, even something that is not programmed-can the Programmer simulate all the possibilities? I'm not so sure, it's really possible he forgets something to simulate.

    For example, why can't Programmer program me and the employer, so I can find me job? It's obviously outside the Programmer's capabilities, if so than the universe is not a computer simulation.
    It's not like employer has been programmed to not to recruit me, his brain was not programmed to do that, it was his brain's free will.

    Plus, the Programmer would have to have each computer for just about any animal, plant, microbe, molecule, atom, subatomic particle, quantum level and below that just in case he actually can't see them all and so he can manipulate all of their actions, decisions, behaviors and everything else at any given time-if he wants to manipulate them at any given time... at the same time, just as the Programmer has to have to simulate what he/she is doing at any given time, make decisions instead of them-that's not possible, because I decide what I'm going to do at any given time of my life.
    That's not possible unless you're omni-present at any given time and space.
    Meaning, the computer simulation of each and every one of us has to be perfect and totally flawless without any glitches/errors and omnipotent. There is no such thing as perfect and omnipotent computer simulation.
     
  18. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    Yep, he is truly scary.
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Uh, yes.

    Now you're just playing with words. The universe, one more time, is everything we know about or can observe.

    Yes you did say that. But you also failed to support it.

    That is, of course, assuming we actually do have free will.

    Unless the programmer intended for you not to have a job.
    Is this your argument? The universe isn't a simulation otherwise you'd be better off?

    And repetition of previous UNSUBSTANTIATED claims.
     
  20. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    They are not unsubstantiated, they are logical.is the programmer programming when and if I will get my job?
    Answer this, is the programmer programming when you need to eat, drink and learn something-nope that's my free will.
    Your claims are totally unsubstantiated, because they are not comparable with the real world we live in.

    And this is totally substantiated:
    Programmer has to simulate what he/she is doing at any given time, make decisions instead of them-that's not possible, because I decide what I'm going to do at any given time of my life.
    That's not possible unless you're omni-present at any given time and space.
    Meaning, the computer simulation of each and every one of us has to be perfect and totally flawless without any glitches/errors and omnipotent. There is no such thing as perfect and omnipotent computer simulation.

    If a living organism is about to die it needs to eat or drink, because is requires energy, not because it is simulated to do that.

    Yes, I did support that programmer has to be omniscient, omnipresent at an given stage of simulation of the creation and the evolution of the universe. The programmer has to see the development of his own programs, but you can't really simulate billions of humans countless number of other species on Earth and their behavior, that's just too much. He needs to see if his software is doing what he wants. Also, how the programmer knows where an leaf exactly is going to fall, when it's windy, you really have to know everything about the universe physics from the highest to the lowest level and it still does not guaranteed that you will be able to predict it-which means the programmer has to be omniscient when it comes to this universe physics.

    And you were the first one playing with words, not me, I simply answered you in the same way.
    You keep saying unsubstantiated words, again.
     
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong.

    Also false.

    Assumption that free will exists. Again.

    Actually you are the one making claims.

    False.

    Assumption.

    Unsubstantiated claim.

    And yet I have a computer game that does make the character die if it doesn't eat.

    No, you claimed it. And provided unsubstantiated waffle.

    Goodbye.
     
  22. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    No, it's not goodbye, it's far from over, explain everything than we will see. You cannot shutdown me, because I'm not a simulation. You're only repeating yourself, which is irrefutable proof of lack of evidences you do not provide, you just repeat yourself that my claims are false and unsubstantiated-which means you do not have any arguments/proofs at all to answer me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  23. mikerawlins Registered Member

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    7
    This thread reminds me of the movie Matrix. The reality is computers rule the world and we are all living in computer generated simulation.
     

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