Are you a closet Christian? Is there such thing?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by jayleew, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    Rhetorical question: Are you a Christian?

    You have heard that in the absence of evidence the simplest answer is often the solution. So, a logical mind may conclude that God does not exist. But, what if it did, in the form of Jesus Christ, actually came down from “heaven” and showed itself?

    Would you follow Jesus Christ if it proved its omnipotence, justice or goodness, and omniscience?

    If you would (I think I would) does that make me a closet Christian if I’ve already decided that I would?

    I have hope that there is an afterlife because it would be a bonus to this existence. I don’t have to have one, but I think it is something worth hoping for. Since I hope there is, and I like the Christian’s view of it, should I act on the hope and choose to believe beforehand? Is that even necessary?

    Am I a Christian just for thinking this?

    According to the Bible, I need to believe to have everlasting life. I’m thinking that if there is a God, then the Bible surely is wrong and its meaning degraded. How can an omniscient God demand that unbelievers believe without proof, knowing how difficult it is in a learned society to reject logical reasoning? If we are conditioned to mistrust hearsay, then how is it a fair requirement? I was doomed to fail from the start and led in this direction from experience, so how is that fair? If there is a Christian god, I don’t believe the Bible is accurate. In fact, it discourages logical minds, calling them “foolish”.
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  3. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    Jesus Christ wasn't a Christian.

    He was loving. Had the greatest thing came and gone, passive man.

    Faith, and hate claim Christianity and the rest of them need to present their very best. Science, is it 'God' or Allah? They can submit scripture and we can moral it or not.

    Is faith a natural intrinsic?
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  5. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    I do not think you need to believe in something to be touched by it. Like christmas day touches everyone whether you like it or not, thats the christmas carol story.

    I think we only have two choices in life, our path either goes to the light or to the dark.

    Thats the only real choice you get on your journey.
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  7. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    What does one not faith? Without time would certainly stop.

    The universe must have unlimited information to host sir faith.

    I claim nature of it. What are you going to do about it? Given, all I need. Freedom to hate. Holy quaint to ring about.
  8. Thoreau Valued Senior Member

    I'd try to find a scientific, logical explanation of how it was possible to do that.

    If this guy was truly omipotent, that means he knows what I'm going to do with my life before I even choose to do it. Thus, free will is mute. Furthermore, if Jesus, as the son and representative of God, created Hell for people who do not follow Jesus, and if God already knows that some people are destined to never follow him or Jesus, but he sends them to Hell anyway, why would anyone follow such a sadistic deity?

    It would make you a masochist.

    A belief in a deity is not a pre-requisite for a belief in an afterlife. See Buddhism.
  9. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    If it truly was a God involved, then I would think our current scientific knowledge would be put to the test. In other words, why try to believe in fairy tales. I assume that it would be some kind of non-explanable thing that defies current scientific laws. That would be the only way I would believe it really is God. Trying to find an explanation is futile since it is "magic".

    That's the $100 question. I don't know why people believe, because scripture teaches this.

    Doesn't make sense. Who exactly is in pain?

    True, but I put forth that I like the "heaven" picture of streets of gold. Others might want skies painted purple. If I believe in "heaven" then must I believe in the Christian god?
  10. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

    Jesus coming back would get questioned from both sides. Skeptics for obvious reasons, and if he was the real thing, he'd both expect that and know what convincing proof if any would work for them. Christians are another thing. They'd probably be worse than non-believers, as they have preconceived notions as to who and what Jesus was, and something different would shut them down to any consideration, just as many tend to do with any theological discussion that threatens their faith.
  11. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    I like this post. I feel like I'm in a better position at this point not believing without good reason, as opposed to choosing to believe for the wrong reason like so many do (even I did for a long stretch). This is why I want to know why people believe. Most folks can't explain. They say, "I just do because I know." They've surrendered to the notion and believe out of faith in something. I wonder if it is truly grounded faith?
  12. elte Valued Senior Member

    It's mostly faith based on man-made stuff; like you said it's basically fairy tales. Faith based on that makes no sense and is not grounded on anything reasonable. I'm like you, i like the idea of heaven and wouldn't mind trying to work toward an afterlife. I just don't see evidence for it.
  13. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    Dude, you must believe. Your heart would stop. It's Michael, all the bible got.
  14. Thoreau Valued Senior Member

    As would his ability to reason.
  15. Balerion Banned Banned

    If you're actually asking us, then it isn't a rhetorical question.

    I don't find omnipotence or omniscience to be particularly redeeming qualities, so why should proof of them make me want to follow him? This is merely another appeal to fear. "He can see you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake," and the sort. Sorry, not interested.

    As for justice and goodness, well, he's got a lot of injustice and badness to account for, so I doubt he'd be able to make up the difference. But supposing he could, then I suppose it's possible. Of course, that Jesus isn't going to look anything like the Jesus of scripture, since scriptural ideas of goodness and justice are not what I--or most people on this forum right now--would consider just or good, so it's kind of a moot question. You'd be better off asking if we'd believe in some hypothetical god that comes down from the heavens with a story.

    No. You're a Christian if you believe in the tenets of one of the Christian denominations. Saying you would hypothetically follow some hypothetical version of Jesus should he ever make a compelling case for himself simply means you're open to the idea. It could also be an exercise in wish-thinking. That is to say, you really, really hope that there is a Jesus, and that he's good and just and worth your worship. Still, unless you really believe in him, then you're not a Christian.

    Called it!

    Really? You're sure it wouldn't be an endless monotony? Try to imagine doing anything for eternity and see if you can picture a scenario in which you don't go crazy from boredom.

    What is the Christian's view of it? I'm curious.

    According to the bible, belief is a prerequisite. As is acting in accordance with Christian law.

    No, but now I see what's really going on: you're looking for a shortcut! haha.

    How can you believe in the Christian God if you think the bible's portrait of it is inaccurate? The bible is the only source of information on the Christian God.
  16. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    So you don't faith here? Reason says its time, no?

    Hypothetical, obviously.
  17. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

    The Bible encourages one to seek wisdom, knowledge, and understanding. These are found in learning the Mind of God as revealed in the Bible, specifically in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is very logical, but His logic is predicated upon truth from another realm beyond that of man's senses. If you come to trust Him, you are endowed with abilities that transcend mere mortals. You receive the Spirit of God Himself and because of His indwelling, your mind is enabled to understand the Bible and therefore to grow in wisdom, knowledge, and understanding concerning the things of God.
  18. Balerion Banned Banned

    A bunch of nonsense. "[W]isdom, knowledge, and understanding concerning the things of God." How appropriately absurd.

    Jayleew, Photizo's post should be sufficient evidence of what faith, as opposed to reason, does to the human brain. He claims the bible encourages one to seek wisdom, which is most certainly untrue. It specifically does the opposite. It promotes and even demands in some cases, blind faith. Even Photizo can't hide this fact when he says that belief engenders understanding of the bible. Notice that he's encouraging you to believe before you understand.

    "Trust me, you'll get all these powers, all these good things will come to you, just trust me..." The promises of a charlatan.
  19. Nom-De-Plume "Give him a mask ... " Registered Member

    Adapting your belief to new evidence and events does not reveal a 'closeted' previous belief in that thing.
    If Zeus et al. revealed themselves to the world, and many began to adhere to ancient Greek Religion(s) as a result, would this mean they were forever 'closeted' believers in such religion(s)? Of course not...

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