Are we machines?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by ll_3473052, Apr 13, 2003.

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  1. Blue_UK Drifting Mind Valued Senior Member

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    Cavemen could have designed computers, if they had been educated and had the materials. No one man could have done it by him self, of course, but humans have built up a wealth of knowledge needed over some time. I would like to think that we are that clever!

    We are biological survival machines for genes - the fudemental repeating unit. We are very much machines, just a bit more high tech and down a different path than PC's!
     
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  3. Abdiel Registered Senior Member

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    PCs ha! Yet, for whom? I could possibly argue that every time I shut down my computer I'm destroying an entire universe, and that restarting it is creating the universe again. Your arguing as to if we are computers, well all religion aside, what is your definition of computer? "A programmable electronic device that can store, retrieve, and process data" Well in such a case we would change electronic to biological, but programmable? We are "programmed" by our society, by other "computers" if you will. So as to our creation? You decide that one on your own. I for one shall never consider myself a computer, or a chip in a computer. I, dear friends, am a human no evidence as to our being computers will derive me from this, if you wish to call yourself a computer then so be it.
    What about animals then? Are they the accesories with someone's giant pc that we all man?
     
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  5. edgar Registered Senior Member

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    so what now,are computer gonna kil us now since we will become "inferior"
     
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  7. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Abdiel,

    And of course not, the comparison is absurd.

    But then what does it mean to be human? Have you examined your brain recently? Not so easy huh? Do you know how it works and how it functions? Perhaps not, otherwise you would not dismiss the comparison with a computer so easily. But no, your brain is not similar to a computer; your brain works quite differently.

    Did you know you have around 200 billion neurons in your brain and each neuron has around 1000 connections to other neurons? And here we can begin a comparison with computers. Each neuron fires at around 200 times each second. It is interesting that a computer also usually operates at a fixed frequency. The neuron takes the signals from all the incoming connections and processes them and may or may not produce its own signal; sounds awfully similar to the gate logic inside a modern microprocessor doesn’t it?

    So from this we can see that your brain is nothing like a computer, but each neuron is incredibly similar. You are less like a single computer than you are like the entire internet compressed to a size that fits inside your skull. You have a massively parallel processing network inside your head, consisting of 200 billion tiny processors.

    The only other difference between you and a more conventional machine is that your processing substrate is composed primarily of carbon and conventional processors use silicon composites.

    So are you a machine? Most definitely, but with a complexity level that man has yet to achieve in the form of modern computers. At a modest estimate we would need around 10,000 x 2GHz microprocessors operating in a tightly linked massively parallel configuration to equal your own processing power. So there are a few years yet before you should feel like an inferior machine.
     
  8. G71 AI Coder Registered Senior Member

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    Why would we want to do it? For us, feelings work as goal generators + they are used as kind of indexes by our memory system. Our machines can (and should) get golas from us (not from "their" feelings) and their memory should also work differently - making associations based on real similarity of concepts. Our feelings are not dynamic enough and that sometimes makes our memory system to overlook important links between various concepts.
    To me, the answer is yes. You need to clearly define us, clearly define machines and then ask yourself again.
    I do not know, but I can tell you that "AI" systems are being created by another "AI" system(s) or by "I" system(s). The "I" systems are being created by a way which has nothing to do with goal oriented activities (no thinking, no intelligence behind). As I mentioned on my page about God, a small set of very simple rules can cause elements to go from a random order to an incredible and balanced complexity.
     
  9. moving Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, but they would not have evolved without us. I know this doesn't imply that we could not have evolved on our own, but it make you wonder.
     
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