Are we born atheists?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by aaqucnaona, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Balerion Banned Banned

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    It shouldn't come as a surprise to you that I'm against the labeling of children.
     
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  3. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    false argument

    atheism has a documented history of being at odds with science
     
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  5. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Nonsense. Atheism is at odds with theism, nothing more.
     
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  7. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    think again

    Atheists have appealed to science in defence of their atheism since the first avowedly atheistic manuscripts of the mid seventeenth century. However, as the German expert on atheism Winfried Schroeder has shown, the relationship between early modern atheism and science tended to embarrass rather than strengthen the fledgling atheism's case.
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You talk as if atheism is a political movement or something. It isn't.

    Perhaps some atheists have been at odds with science, but then again, there are many more religious people who have been at odds with science. So what is your point, exactly? :shrug:
     
  9. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    that notions of "atheism" are just as socially constructed as "theism" or even "science" for that matter ... hence statements like wellwisher's "Qualitatively, if the small child was innately atheist at birth, they would be rational and scientific at birth, since this is how atheism is pitched." are not valid
     
  10. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The alchemists were among the original modern scientists and they were not atheists. Rather the alchemists saw a distinction between physical and spiritual reality. Many were clergy and doctors, educated by the church. Atheism attaches itself to science, later in history; parasite.

    Although both religion and science are both independent entities with a life of their own, atheism is a parasite that only exists in the context of these two alive entities. Take away science and all mention of religion/god and what is left? All these discussion only occur because these hosts give the parasite life.

    The original topic is, are we born atheists. If this was true, a natural form of atheism should exist, even without any conditioned connection to science or (anti) religion, since atheism did not invent science but merely attaches to it. What would atheism look like without these hosts? Or is it conditioned behavior?

    A good question to ask yourself is, when did you become an atheist and was that due to an external induction; conditioned?
     
  11. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

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    ...:wallbang::frust::splat:
     
  12. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

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    You dont have to be a theist to be like a theist.
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I think I have always been, in effect, an atheist.

    Perhaps for me, one cause for my atheism was that from early on, before age 2, I have been rejected by theists.
    My parents didn't go with the common tradition here of baptizing infants, and after that, the rest of the family and the society here considered me a lesser being.
     
  14. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Likeness is in the eye of the likener.
     
  15. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    You're blatantly ignoring the fact that your own definition of theism is also inconsistent with that provided by actual theists.
     
  16. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    How?
     
  17. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    The three links I provided earlier are examples of theists defining theism as a belief in a god, or as a position on the existence of a god or gods. In other words, anyone who believes in a god or gods is a theist (which is entirely consistent with what you'll find in dictionaries and encyclopedias).

    Your own personal definition of theism is somewhat different. Earlier in this thread you said the following:

    But the Conservapedia definition (as one example) reads:

    It does not read:

    Theism is a general term used to acknowledge the belief in [and complete devotion to] a Deity or deities. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, theism more narrowly means belief in [and complete devotion to] a deity that is both immanent in the world, but also transcendent, and is also omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.

    Nor do any of the other definitions (whether provided by theists or others of unknown philosophical persuasion) read in a similar way.

    In a nutshell, it seems that you're trying to make the definition of theism more specific than it actually is, to make it apply to less people. Although what is really going on of course is that you've simply confused theism with religious devotion.
     
  18. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I would think that from a theistic perspective,

    Theism is a general term used to acknowledge the belief in a Deity or deities. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, theism more narrowly means belief in a deity that is both immanent in the world, but also transcendent, and is also omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.

    reads as

    Theism is a general term used to acknowledge the belief in [and complete devotion to] a Deity or deities. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, theism more narrowly means belief in [and complete devotion to] a deity that is both immanent in the world, but also transcendent, and is also omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.



    Only if you look at my input from a strictly atheistic perspective.
     
  19. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, we born atheists, and besides, god is a cultural idea.
     
  20. aaqucnaona This sentence is a lie Valued Senior Member

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    And yet still, no likener applies likeness to the likened unless the likened suggests so.
     
  21. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    In the same way that someone might think that being a philatelist necessarily entails complete devotion to the goal of amassing the most impressive collection of rare stamps possible, at considerable financial and personal expense, because they were once such a hardcore philatelist themselves, and knew a few other people who were as well. This is an inaccurate definition by association, which would also no doubt extend to the term "stamp collector". The truth is however, that philately doesn't even necessarily entail collecting stamps (it is, at a minimum, merely the study of them), and many of the philatelists who do collect treat it as nothing more than a relaxing hobby.

    What you're trying to do here, wynn, is the equivalent of insisting that philatelists who don't collect, or philatelists who don't sacrifice for their collection, aren't really philatelists at all.

    All you've been doing in response to the case I've made is to say "I think" and "but you're an atheist".

    Great counterarguments you've got there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2012
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Theism is simply a belief in a god or gods. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods.

    The rest is padding.
     
  23. Chipz Banned Banned

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    I've read your previous posts. I believe the confusion is the way atheism and theism are essentially defined in common place in America. Perhaps (but I doubt it) words in Australia don't have connotation which overextends literal definition. Take for example this definition provided by Stanford University from the perspective of a Pantheist.

    "1. Theism
    Classical theism, or traditional theism: the understanding that ultimate reality is a being which is distinct from the world and any other reality. This distinction involves a separation between God and the world that makes any interaction between God and the world problematic."
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/


    The fact Stanford would provide definitions of terms within the context of different beliefs seems to preclude your belief an absolute universal definition is legitimate.
     

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