Are there any NEW Creationist arguments? (v.2)

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by synthesizer-patel, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Wow, so exclusive...
    Had you read my post?
    Taken singularly, any of those quotes could be claimed to mean something else.
    But add them all together and you end up with a description in which the Earth is flat. As I said, I could not find all the quotes I wanted to find:
    I wonder how much of that is in the "Hebrew Bible?"

    How the hell did you glean THAT from it, huh? You covered your ass above a second time and now you change your story.
    Sounds like CYA to me.
    I was not ridiculing anyone. I was pointing out the Folly of your BOOK and your folly for trying to base literal scientific observations to it.

    Either way, as Dywyddyr pointed out- You have not got much of a clue.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
     
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  3. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Knock-knock! The Hebrew predates the Greeks, and the subject was not about who is pernicious and ignorant but whether there is a claim in the Hebrew that the earth is flat!


    FYI, the circus top drawings with the stars afixed on a canopy was from the ancient Greeks - any change of mind can be attributed only to post 300-BCE, after the Hebrew bible was translated to the Greek langage: feel free to show anything Greek before this time. Colorful deflecting adjectives don't impact here.

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  5. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    No~ This can be seen even in a flat, curved earth. Today, the sphearical earth is better seen via the Hebrew calendar. You will know that the Greek philosophy became embedded in the Gospels - which also supported a flat earth! Omissions will get you anywhere you want to go - but the truth.
     
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  7. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Not really, if you made a claim concerning the Hebrew bible, you cannot quote verses from the Gospels and still maintain your claim. You failed to show any text the earth is flat, then you jumped to other texts - and they were also incorrect. Denial comes from the inability to bite the bullet.



    If you want to see a poetic verse as a manipulation, then you also have to examine the rest of the text and understand its context, which means you are clinging to extended manipulation because you cannot find what you would like to. All those quotes, singularly and collectively, represent the antithesis of your claims. You have no credibility of mixing up every scripture in one green bag to make a blanket claim. Sorry if the Hebrew does not give you want you want.

    Collectively, if you take only the quotes in the Hebrew, it certainly does not add up to your conclusions. In fact there is an antithetical premise of your conclusion. Sorry if your fundamental belief is shaken here.

    What I said was correct. The Greeks and other ancient peoples were not ignorant for thinking the earth is flat - in their space-time; it is ignorant to apply such a label on them. I stand by this. Also, that the Hebrew was at variance is blatant, as I gave examples in numerous other areas.

    He's just doing what he's always been doing - incapable of not denying any and everything when it comes to the Hebrew. But he's NEVER been right. This is a common syndrome with those who assume themselves secular - they target the Hebrew most as a compensation effect. Its a historical syndrome. Something like being abused and unleashing it all on a favorite scapegoat.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong: the claim was that ancient peoples thought the Earth was flat due to having no telescopes. There's also the evidence that the Earth cast a shadow on the Moon that was was only ever circular (or part thereof) - this is only possible if the Earth is spherical.

    Make your mind up: is it flat or curved?

    Wrong. The Greeks knew the Earth was spherical.

    What you said WAS wrong - for the simple reason that they didn't think the Earth was flat.

    Once more you're talking balls - I showed that you were wrong with your nonsensical claim.

    I "targeted" nothing but your ridiculous claim. Keep trying.
     
  9. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Unless you have a Torah handy...

    No, I demonstrated it quite clearly. Your way of ducking out of it was to claim that was not from the HEBREW Bible...

    And then you wait a little time and start lying, presumably assuming most won't go back up to check or hadn't been following along.

    I made it easily clear how they add up to a description of a flat Earth.

    When logic fails you, you resort to dishonesty.

    You failed to address the link I posted...
    That link is an Example, mind you... But of course you blithely slithered right over it as a snake afraid of his own shadow.
     
  10. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    IamJoseph, you do not strike me as one defending the truth from the ignorant believers...

    Rather, you strike me as one that will stop at nothing to justify and rationalize his belief while projecting that behavior on others.
     
  11. Neverfly Banned Banned

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  12. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    'BELIEF' is a generic trait inherent in all life; it has nothing to do with any religion or science. I am not into belief - you can offer any good doctrine from any place - if it is a valid one I will follow it. But you have not put anything on the table other than display paranoia from some lurking problem you have.

    I invite honest atheists, muslims, christians, anyone else to put up a good doctrine - everyone will accept it. This is why the world turns by the 613 laws in the Hebrew bible - exclusively [a harsh but true statement] - not because of belief, but because they are valid; the world's institutions accepted them even while villifying the Jews!
     
  13. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Its a valid point. However, the Greeks also had those canopy drawings till late in history, with stars stuck on the ceiling, obviously the source where the Gospels inherited this premise.

    The earth and the oceans being curved is obvious - yet the flat earth premise prevailed.

    Before 300 BCE? You will have to provide irrefutable proof here. I hold that even democrasy and alphabetical writings did not come from Greece - they got this when the Septuagint was translated. My proof is Josephus, and that we do not see any Greek or other alphabetical historical books which have dating of events verifications pre-300 BCE. I am open to being corrected here.

    Knock-knock! If we have writings which numerously portray solid historically verifiable events - then you have to counter this with equal counter. You can easily KO me - but you have not yet.
     
  14. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    You proved nothing other than displaying total desperation. The Hebrew bible is the only writings [at least in M/E belief systems], that does not subscribe or list in its texts, a fat earth, in direct contradiction with the other scriptures. This is true of its texts and history, and affirmed by the Hebrew calendar's mechanisms.

    All you did was select some verses outside of the Mosaic bible [poems], which does not say the world is flat - but you manipulate this to suit your own views. I responded to every example you provided. I advise you not to mix all theological writings to derive your conclusions and beliefs that way. There are fulcrum and pivotal differences of the Hebrew with the Gospels and Quran - the former predates by more than 2000 years, and the latter two have no history of its observances. You have to factor this in your conclusions and acknowledge this difference.
     
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Where and when?

    Fail - your claim was that the invention of telescopes was required to invalidate a flat Earth. It has been shown that the Earth was known to be spherical long prior to this.

    Do you actually read replies to you?
    Your claim: telescopes are required to invalidate a flat Earth.
    I clearly showed that this is not the case.

    Not only have you been countered you have, once again, been shown to not take any notice of what is said to you.

    For example:
    It has been shown previously on several occasions that this claim is false, yet you persist in repeating it.
     
  16. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    I am well aware of the claims the Greeks had some [Pythogorus] who are said to have held the earth sphearical. But a closer check will find those claims are made some 1,500 years later, and with no back -up. This is rampant throughout European versions of distorted and manipulated history; it is my belief the Gospels emerged from such paradigms, the reason we cannot prove anything by contemporary or cross-nation evidences, when no rational reasonings apply here.

    There is no proof of what you have read somewhere - there is proof that Christianity, a greek derivitive, held a flat earth belief upto medevial Christianity times: why was Galeleo persecuted by the church if the Greeks propelled a spherical world! 600 years earlier?

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    I referred this to the general world population who once held a flat earth policy and why they saw the earth as flat. While you have sited other means aside from telescopes, this would be limited to a few elites only, while the flat earth belief remained upto Galeleo. The true non-flat earth is seen only in the Hebrew calendar and the lack of anyone being persecuted or burnt at the stake for making such a caim. Selective omissions are not valid.


    See above. Yes I do read - and my responses are valid.

    You mean there are no car parking fine laws in the Hebrew bible?! You did make this claim. Your not a desperado are you!

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  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It's spelled "Pythagoras", but it wasn't him. Maybe you should be the one to do the "closer check" - i.e. actually research what you're pronouncing upon. Because you're wrong again.

    Galileo's trial had nothing to do with whether the Earth was spherical or not.

    Really, you continually make yourself look stupid when you expose your complete ignorance of science while at the same time pretending to be authoritative about it.

    Telescopes are not needed to prove that the Earth is not flat. Did you forget
    where this was explained to you previously?

    Tell me, IamJoseph: do you ever learn anything? Or are you too set in your ways to assimilate new knowledge?

    Another grandiose statement with zero evidence.
     
  18. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Fail again:
    Your claim:
    http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2622050&postcount=219
    Wrong...

    You're arguing against something I haven't said. Way to go.

    Still wrong.
    You have no evidence that "the general world population" believed the Earth was flat, since the Greeks had shown quite simply that it wasn't. And that information was available to all.

    Nonsense. As usual.

    I pointed out several laws that are not in the bible which ARE used, and several which are in the bible and NOT used.

    You're still lying I see.
     
  19. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    A search will find the following.
    I have the above in a file on my hard disk & forgot where I found it.

    Note that the above experiment was done circa 240 BCE, which indicates that various Greeks believed that the Earth was a sphere prior for some time prior to then. It is likely that such knowledge existed prior to 300 BCE.

    Almost all cultures who sailed large bodies of water had individuals who believed that the Earth was a sphere. Such individuals saw ships approaching the shore. First you see the top mast, then more of the ship appears. A sailor approaching a shore with a tall building or a mountain peak will see the top first & then observe the entire building (or mountain) coming into view.

    Such views lead to a knowledge (at least a suspicion) that the Earth is a sphere. The Phoenicians & likely the Minoans probably believed that the Earth was a sphere, putting the belief at some time prior to 1000 BCE.
     
  20. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    The premise of evolution comes from Genesis, which places it in the correct protocol - an after the fact mechanism. ToE agrees that evolution has nothing to do with origins, but has no idea what kick started it. How do you think the evolution cycle got under way; when; how; and is it an on-going and universal premise?

    Evolution is not in conflict with Creationism. The equation is:

    CREATION; EVOLUTION.

    CREATION VS EVOLUTION is an incorrect equation.

    Genesis is correct that the offspring is a result of a program directive embedded in the host chip ['seed'] which is transmitted by one party of the host, and derived by both parties. There is no offspring w/o the tranmitting of a chip; there is no evolution w/o a pre-exitsing construct: what would evolution evolutionize?
     
  21. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    because he had proof of Copernicus's theory of heliocentrism rather than geocentrism
     
  22. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    I don't accept anything from Europe which is not backed by hard copy proof. If someone puts up an actual proof democrasy or alphabetical writings existed in Greece - I want to see something older than the Hebrew. This is a reasonable and encumbent condition for a people which produced the blood libels, the Protocols, a 3-state is a 2-state, and calling humans as born of the devil.
     
  23. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Whoah! How is this date proven - does anyone know?

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