Are theists asking too much of people?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by wynn, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    If a person starts thinking about these things no sooner than on their deathbed, that is rather late.
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  3. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    That's what the marketing department of religions tell us. And the marketing department of Head and Shoulders says I won't have any friends if I get dandruff. Both are trying to sell a product.
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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Trying to sell a product isn't necessarily bad, though. You might benefit, and greatly so, from the product.
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  7. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    I can only speak for myself. I have done plenty of introspection when by myself, introverting deeply, although I am an outright extrovert around people. In poetry, one may take felt sensations and write of them, which I freely do, exulting in many romantic excesses for emotion's sake, and, yet, I can tell fantasy from reality, for introspection cannot tell all, all by itself, for it is but the "second story", and so we must ever be informed by science and what exists outside of us, even of that which composes the "first floor" of us.
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Its upto you to decide if you just want to get through high school or struggle all the way through a PhD with lots of options in between. Like life, theism is a matter of choice and you can skim over the surface, turn away, ignore or delve deeply, as you wish. After all, our eternal life or corporal life is most important only to ourselves whether we choose to make something of it or just while it away.
  9. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

    "You might benefit, and greatly so, from the product."

    Or you may find your allergic to one or more of the ingredients and come up in a rash.

    Dee Cee
  10. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    My point is that there are enormous differences among people, within the same congregation.

    For some, convinction came easily, without much studying, discussion and practice. They read one short book, and "that was it" - and then they walk around in confidence that they are right.

    Some other people study, pray, fast, for years, and it seems to bring nothing; they don't arrive at the comfort and confidence of others, they only have a tiny fraction of that in comparison to others.

    And to me, this is unfair.

    Why wasn't that one book enough for me, while it was enough for so many others?
    I feel like I am "one of God's lesser children", the idiot who has to study thick books of philosophy, invest enormous efforts into practice, and still have basically nothing to show for.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2011
  11. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

    Because you are not "lesser", but have an inquiring mind that doesn't just halt at a word or a book.
  12. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    They do?

    My impression of Protestant Christianity at any rate, which is where most of the evangelists come from, is that it's prone to preaching what Bonhoeffer called 'cheap grace'. There's this idea that 'faith' and 'works' are distinct and opposed, and that Christianity is a matter of the former rather than the latter.

    I'm not sure what Luther was up to when he emphasized that idea. Maybe he sought a deeper transformation of the heart, as opposed to simply going through the motions.

    But in subsequent history, it seems to have degenerated into the idea that one is saved by simply calling upon Jesus, or even that some have always been predestined to be saved. So what people actually do, what their religious practice is, simply doesn't matter.

    Anybody's going to need to have a persuasive reason before they decide to make big changes in their lives. That doesn't really have anything to do with whether they are atheists or not.

    Ah, there you go again Signal. You say that you aren't a theist, but you sure sound like one sometimes.

    It's not egregious. It's just kind of empty and pointless for those of us that don't believe whatever mythic system we are supposed to orient our lives around.

    If somebody wants me to voluntarily transform my whole life, then they are going to have to convince me why I should. It's as simple as that. I have absolutely no obligation to justify my failure to convert to a religion that I don't believe in, nor is there any reason for me to feel guilty about it.
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

    then that's what you should have said and have made a more clear and clarified statement if that is what you mean. you didn't. so don't pawn this crap onto me as if another is misunderstanding it.

    this is not necessarily the above! otherwise, anyone guilty of committing murder can tell another to STFU because they've wanted to do it too. what one thinks and what one does are not the same thing!

    i have no education and have better critical thinking ability!

    totally ass backwards. no wonder the world is so fucked up. it did not become disconnected, it just expounded on it but you weren't following perhaps, maybe ADD. the lack of introspection was the other party's post.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  14. Rav Valued Senior Member

    birch was making perfect sense. You decided to pick a fight. That's just the way it went down.
  15. birch Valued Senior Member

    don't you mean gmilam? you've been defending his post.
  16. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    This is how I understand it, even, and esp., the Protestants.

    "Calling upon Jesus" is a philosophical and practical nightmare for me.

    My question was not merely rhetorical. I am interested in why something is deemed "too much".

    I suppose you are not afraid that you could be wrong.
    If this is so, do you know how come, whence the confidence in living your life as you see fit?

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