Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Medicine*Woman, Oct 22, 2008.
Fine.. don't answer. Sigh..
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Here's an idea...
Why don't people just believe whatever the hell they want to believe and stop worrying about what everyone else believes? Everybody's so fucking codependent it makes me sick.
But what is the philosophical basis of such a stance? What is it about Islam's philosophy that entails such a stance toward other people's beliefs?
In comparison, for example, with mainstream Christians who apparently consider it their duty to fiercely convert others and that others are obligated to convert to Christianity.
I think its because Islam does not believe in intercession and is mostly an individualistic religion. ie I am accountable for every atom of good and bad that comes from me and not at all for what other people do. You can see this playing out when Muslims discuss their own religion. While Kadark and I may sneer at each other's outlook for example, we respect the fact that we are each entitled to them.
I think this is also the reason why most Muslims puzzle out over why they are supposed to condemn or oppose the actions of "radical" Muslims. It would be like someone telling me on this board, why don't you condemn Kadark's avatar, you're both Muslims??? And Kadark and me would go, so what? We're not joined at the hip! This is a notion very different from the western form of religion, which is probably another factor in the misunderstandings.
Thats a separate notion. Muslims too have the notion of dawah [invitation], but thats an invitation to join the group, not a judgment on your beliefs. If you go for a dawah session, for example, they won't tell you whats wrong with your religion, they'll tell you what they like about theirs.
As a further example, for instance, even among Muslims, you are not really supposed to ask [in a challenging way] if someone prays or fasts, if you do, it should be as an invitation as in: let us pray together or let us break fast together, etc.
This is to avoid any judgment on the piety of the other person.
A man as conservative as Maududi has written on the topic of kufr [unbelief] in Muslims:
And this is just between Muslims.
People of other faiths and atheists are far far away and can be summed up with a short sura from the Quran:
Al-Kafiroon (The Disbelievers, Atheists)
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.
M*W: You bring up a good point. Atheists are for the most part independent in their belief. Theists, however, have a desire to belong to a group. That seems to be co-dependent to me.
Why would you ask that?
Perhaps that message from THE BIBLE was misinterpreted. I'm sure you'd be the first to "jive" with that. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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My mother is afraid of it because she doesn't want me to go to tell. It is a very real fear for her and she actually cries about it.
As near as I can tell they ones who are most troubled by atheists are the ones who in their hearts can't really believe the BS any more and it scares the shit out of them.
Theists who really believe aren't any more bothered than atheists who really don't care.
Orly-consideration for the emotions of theists of any sort is anathema to many atheists.
Q-<gasp> Say it ain't so! YOU said misinterpret and bible in the same sentence!
swarm-I care about your soul. Really. My wife is agnostic at best. I think about it all the time, but don't beat her over the head about it.
Not me. I'm not gonna be like a theist and demand that others believe the things I believe.
I don't know why some people thing everything having to do with god belief is wrong or evil. There are a lot of believers out there feeding and clothing the homeless
<shrug> people are fond of their stereotypes. Anytime someone starts with All ______ are ________ it's bound to end up poorly. There is one of those ________'s that is not ________. Stereotyping is stupid.
Is this due to making a statement about all?
Or is there something else about the statement that is problematic?
Because atheists are obviously instruments of the anti-christ.
greenburg-All cannibals are worthy of respect.
That is only because you have less faith in your god than I do, and I don't even believe in him.
Judging from all the damn similar threads by Atheists, I think it's the contrary.
If most people were Nazis yet we had the freedom to post what we want, there would be many threads exploring why it's not a good thing.
That is an interesting and unusual testimony.
Care to exand on it?
Separate names with a comma.